Next TL?

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I voted for Black Prince even though the LBJ choice will win. :(

Rogue's time lines, like those by CalBear, Jared, Amerigo, and a few others, usually cause me to begin reading up on the topics they cover.

While I already know a small bit about the 60s in the US, my familiarity with India doesn't extend much past the high points. This means following Rogue's work on India will help guide me in exploring a topic which is almost totally new to me. :)
 
You already know where my vote lies

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LBJ sounds interesting, but I'd prefer the Black Prince TL. It would be refreshing to see a TL outside of the US and Europe.
 
I vote LBJ. Considering you're extremely accurate interpretation of a Robert Kennedy Presidency, I'm interested on your thoughts of a more sucessfull Great Society. Considering that I know what the POD, it's even more intriguing!
 
Here's a preview of ALMH.

Dec. 12, the White House, 2145
The President looked outside the stained glass windows of the Oval Office at the blustery snowfall descending upon Washington, a metaphor for the end of his tumultuous two terms in the White House. With everyone else either gone home or in the Residence, the President took this time to think about his legacy and what had transpired in this very room a quarter-century earlier. In just five weeks he would be leaving office a happy and contented man, anxious to return to private life after having been on the political frontlines for nearly four decades. The election outcome had not been to his liking, but there was little to be done. Oh sure, the media carped that he had been largely invisible during the campaign, but to him, the only thing that mattered was that the candidates had been perfectly happy with his level of involvement. Nor did he much care for the media’s carping about the historicity of the 40th president-to-be s election- he had never been one for identity politics, given his personal conviction and of course own tangled history with the media on that very subject. This day had been spent on the phone with foreign leaders, having held a transition meeting yesterday. All were wishing him a fond farewell, ahead of his final Summit of the Americas next week and preparing to leave Washington after long decades spent in the nation’s capital. The phone call to London had been a long one, as had the ones to Moscow, Ottawa and Delhi. Such was the price of diplomacy, and one he was happy to pay. In front of the fireplace, he leaned back into the leather chair, closed his eyes and thought back to that fateful day, when he had decided to... detente was the wrong word, given later events. Not a compromise, because his feelings had never changed one iota. A truce, Yeah, that’s it.
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“The Great Society is a place where every child can find knowledge to enrich his mind and to enlarge his talents. It is a place where the city of man serves not only the needs of the body and the demands of commerce but the desire for beauty and the hunger for community. It is a place where men are more concerned with the quality of their goals than the quantity of their goods.”
- President Lyndon B. Johnson’s commencement address at the University of Michigan, May 22, 1964

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Q: “What made the President decide to retain NSAM 273?”
A: “I explained to him that President Kennedy had seen this as part of an evolutionary process- the initial withdrawals were part of a transition.”
Q: “A transition to what, precisely?”
A: “A transition to South Vietnam fighting the war on their own, which was the plan all along. We intended to send those arms and equipment to enable them to fight both the insurgency and the NVA, though in 1963 the former, not the latter, was our primary concern. Then as later, Johnson was determined to ensure continuity. From a political standpoint, he knew that diverging from Kennedy’s Vietnam policy would signal a break in the continuity that the country so desperately craved at the time, given the national tragedy that had just occurred.”
Q: “Did you have any doubts about continuing to serve President Johnson in the new administration?”
A: “No, because I saw my role as serving the United States and more specifically, its government. I was not and have never been a political individual in the partisan sense- I was a lifelong Republican serving in a Democratic president’s Cabinet, then and later. I didn’t know Jack Kennedy until December 1960. All of us felt a duty to stay on and ensure continuity for the country’s sake, regardless of our personal feelings about the president.”
Q: “Speaking of personal feelings about the president, at the time there was much speculation that Robert Kennedy would take the opportunity to leave given the immense tragedy he had just suffered. Were you involved in that decision- did the president asked you to mediate with him on this subject?”
A: “No, that was his decision alone- a few of his more liberal friends wanted him to leave, but he put the national interest first.”
Q: “Only for a few months, until he left to run for the Senate.”
A: “Precisely.”
Robert McNamara interviewed by Walter Cronkite, Dec. 7, 1983
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Some have been asking me to leave- particularly AS & JKG + a few of the usual suspects who can’t stand LBJ. Neither can I but that’s irrelevant. Despite the immense tragedy of Jack’s death- something I will probably never fully get over- we have to carry on as he would have wished. I will stay on until the election & then bug out, either to the NY Senate or private life. The VP talk is an absurdity- but I am encouraging it to make the prick squirm as much as possible. After all, he’ll have to ask me, won’t he? The media won’t let it be otherwise- every damn press conference they’ll keep bringing it up & forced to give noncommittal answers. Then when the inevitable refusal comes they’ll make it look like he turned me down if I spin it right- which will deal another body blow & set things up properly for my launch. I am not doing this for personal reasons- though they do exist- so as to remind everyone that I am setting out on my own path in the party, independent of the WH & the assorted sycophants. Most of them are very nice people who go out of their way to be friendly to me, which is appreciated but I cannot stand sycophancy or sycophants. They are all afraid of him- just the other day George Reedy messed up on a minor point of staff work & got the short end of Johnson’s temper- banging the desk, yelling, getting in his face & terrorizing the living hell out of him. Ditto the other day- this time with Moyers or so the source tells me. These aren’t summer interns, but people who have worked for him for 10+ years. What a horrible human being if he can’t even treat these people with basic civility & decency. Heaven knows I’m no saint on temper either- but I don’t go that far with staff & if I did would apologize afterwards. I haven’t been sleeping since 11/22- at most 3-4 hours at night before I have to go out for a drive. Lost a few pounds as well- my appetite is much less than it usually is. After the last batch of work tomorrow I’m going to take a few days & try to clear my head a bit.
- RFK Diaries, Dec. 3, 1963
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Many within & without the party have been urging me to run again this year, but Johnson is unbeatable- Jack is now a martyr & the economy is roaring instead of an unofficial recession as CBO initially projected. I also would not have run had Jack lived, for I have no interest in a rerun of ’60- in fact that was why I ran for governor. I couldn’t give a damn about the governorship- I did it to get the media off my back & to get some executive experience, no other reason. Johnson will win in a landslide, no doubt about it. Rocky’s child means that he will not get the nomination, though I cannot believe he would be so stupid so as to fatally compromise his national stature in such a manner. Barry’s a good man but he’ll lose badly to Johnson. The New Deal is well within recent memory- everyone over 40 remembers it & those under 30 have known nothing but the post-New Deal era which is now deeply ingrained in the nation’s collective psyche. A pity but such are the political realities under which we now operate. Some have suggested that LBJ will ask Bobby to be his VP- which is patently absurd given how much they despise each other. I also suspect he’s encouraging this to twist the knife in- he’s always been a mean little SOB, even if here I sympathize with him, not his target. Besides, he’s far too talented & young to be attending funerals & presiding over the Senate every couple of weeks- since LBJ would quarantine him in the NO & never let him see the light of day except Cabinet & NSC meetings. This year will be a wash for us but there is always ’66 & ’68 to look forward to down the road. I will make 2 predictions: that HHH will be VP & that the next NY Senator will be Bobby.
- Nixon Diaries, Jan. 2, 1964
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ALMH looks good - 2145 is really far ahead to have a flashback though lol

My personal preference is for a Eugene McCarthy VP - pick - to my knowledge this hasnt been done before
 
Well he did say the 40th President, and whomever was the leaving President has been an old Washington dog for a few decades up to that point so hmm.

If LBJ serves out his full "2nd" Term which he should given that Vietnam will be a nonfactor and the stress of it won't take such a toll on his worn out ticker that takes 36 to 1973. Assuming LBJ is followed by three two-term president's that put's us at January 20th 1997 at the latest. If that President is indeed RFK, I'd have to say it is having him getting elected to office at age 63 in '88 seems almost cruel. M88 most likely though due to the social turmoil, tendacy towards close elections, and the twenty year curse at around '85 or '89 when we swear in our first something President lol...Post A Land of Milk Honey immediatley RB, I know you've got the first 20 years already written lol:D
 
Here's the prologue of Black Prince.

Sanjay and Indira Gandhi talk at a rally for state legislative candidates in Uttar Pradesh, 1 January 1976.

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The Prime Minister and her sons at the Prime Minister's Residence.

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PRIME MINISTERIAL SECRETARIAT
ATTN: P.M. EYES ONLY- CONFIDENTIAL
FROM: P.N.D.
11 JANUARY 1976
RE: GENERAL ELECTION
Indira,
I know that in our last conversation you had decided upon postponing the election due to the need of consolidating the Emergency, but I must digress. The case for dissolving on schedule is in my opinion far stronger than the case against postponement.
1) Convincing the populace that the E is merely temporary rather than semi-permanent: by holding the election on schedule no one will become alarmed & regular life can continue without raising hackles that something amiss is afoot.
2) Ratification of your policies: internal polling shows us on course to repeat the landslide of 5 years ago, with maybe 8-12 seats that can go either way. This is due to strong support from the people and lack of any sort of coherent opposition as we saw the other day in the House. The 20-point programme will continue to be enacted unabated, but undoubtedly it is Sanjay’s 5-point programme that has captured India’s imagination.
3) Enabling Sanjay to acquire legitimate political power: his current role as your chief domestic policy adviser is extra, not UN, constitutional. If he ran for election as an MP his power would be significantly enhanced & legitimized in the populace’s eyes, as well as the Party and the Cabinet’s. This would not necessitate a Cabinet post for obvious reasons but Amethi’s impending vacancy is a godsend for both of you. Ask him if he’s interested in running: it would mean giving up Maruti, or at least delegating daily oversight to someone else.
4) Lending the E more credibility in foreign eyes: if elections are held, no one will be able to call the E a dictatorship in this scenario. While not one of the top reasons it would enable flexibility should you decide to ease tensions with the West. This is especially important in the US, where Ford looks a dead duck at the moment- but don’t count him out just yet. A Republican win is better for us, not because we agree with their policies, but they take a relaxed view of Emergency-style governance or worse, unlike the childish Democrat.

P.N. Dhar, 1971
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“Undoubtedly Sanjay’s objections to holding the election were not easily overcome. However Dhar’s memo, particularly the second and third points, convinced him that it was not only necessary but desirable. His desire for power won out over his utter lack of trust in democratic processes, which would have far-reaching political consequences down the road. Even more surprisingly, he was not the most authoritarian-minded person in the family. One of Indira’s cousins wanted her to become a de jure dictator, abolishing the parliamentary system and declaring her president for life- which was obviously not within the realm of possibility. The announcement of dissolution and the impending election would be made in Parliament within the week, right on schedule, surprising no one. Or so they thought at the time.”

“I have seen the President, and per my request he has granted dissolution of this Lok Sabha. The general election will be held on March 3rd and safe campaigning to all!” After a brief moment, the Speaker declared “I hereby declare this Lok Sabha dissolved as the prelude to the general election held on the 5th of March. Thank you all for your service.”
- Lok Sabha, Feb. 2

“We are fighting for the poor, the dispossessed, and the underprivileged against the domestic forces of reaction trying to stymie progress in India. Under the 20 Point Programme you have all seen your standards of living rise, the cities beautified, literacy increased and tax fraud all but eliminated after many years of unspeakable corruption. The caste system which has oppressed countless Indians in the name of religious reaction has been systematically exterminated over these past eight months. Only with your help can we continue along the inexorable road towards progress and a more equitable and just society. That is why I am seeking your vote as the MP for Amethi: I will seek to represent you in Parliament to the best of my ability & demand progress on your behalf. If elected you shall not be lacking in influence in Delhi. There have been excesses committed in family planning- but while regrettable these are only a small percentage of cases. The ultimate goal, of course, is to have sustainable population growth. Congress has plans for 90% of Indians, the poor, the middle class, and yes, the rich. What are the opposition’s plans for the country? ‘Indira Hatao’ and we saw how well that turned out for them five years ago, did we not? Send them a message- not just the reactionaries and fundamentalists, but to the entire continent that we are not ready to turn our backs on progress. There is much work to be accomplished and we can only do so with the help of each and every Indian by their individual initiative. Thank you and remember: mark the cow on March 5th for Congress!”
Sanjay Gandhi stumping in Amethi, Feb. 14
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Half the stuff I say on the stump is absolute BS, though they lap up my every word as if I was the Krishna reincarnated- how superstitious the peasantry can still be after 30 years of official secularism. K Singh was the one who told me to put in the line about family planning, which is regrettable- no one should be coerced into doing so. Aside from being indecent, more importantly in political terms, it undermines the image of our programme. If we lose the poor we lose power- it is that simple. Mother is doing over a hundred events in a week- & I’m doing my part as well, which makes it especially difficult on M given her moods these days & I find those completely unreasonable. After a long day on the trail I expect to be relaxed but come home to constant tension & anxiety, but on other days it is just as I like it- quiet, peaceful & relaxing. It is almost bipolar when I think about it now, in retrospect. Rajiv is on assignment in Lucknow again, he will not be back until election night but I want to discuss a few things with him. Maruti will be transferred to [REDACTED} for the foreseeable future. I cannot be an MP & run Maruti, avoid an open conflict of interest & most importantly remain sane. One job at a time & right now that job of mine are to help Mother in the political arena. I expect to give up my position as Youth President as an MP but hand it over to [REDACTED] who will do exactly what I want. They are the ones who will be doing most of the work that will never make the newspapers. I ask them to merely nod their heads & they bow so deeply so as to fall on their ass. Journalists are such gullible morons when you tweak them right.
- Sanjay Gandhi Diaries, Feb. 21

Throughout the campaign there was no doubt that the Congress would be returned with another landslide majority. Everywhere they travelled, the Gandhis found nothing but adulation for them and widespread support for Congress. Even in presumed opposition strongholds the crowds were enormous, and as March 5, Election Day, neared, all pollsters were predicted that Congress would not just retain its current 371 seats, but actually gain up to 10 seats. Yet all was not well in late February. While most voters were quite happy with the Emergency, as shown by not just domestic but Gallup polling, there were malefactors. Many industrialists disliked Indira’s socialist policies, organized crime was furious at the voluntary tax fraud disclosure scheme which had effectively shut down their market in that field, and the labour movement, led by firebrand trade unionist George Fernandes, had vowed to oppose Indira since her suppression of the previous year’s railway strike with Army troops. To this day the events of March 3, 1976 remain the subject of innumerable conspiracies just like the Kennedy assassination in the United States: over 60% of Indians have consistently polled as disagreeing with the Commission’s findings.
- Sanjay Gandhi: Man on a Mission by Katherine Frank

Congress election poster in Tamil Nadu
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March 3, Tuensang, Nagaland
11:32 AM
On the platform the Prime Minister was delivering her standard stump speech: the 20-point Programme, with all the benefits it would bring to the peasants, workers and interested bystanders nearby. The audience was hanging on her every word. “It is in your interest to return a Congress government which governs on your behalf, where we have brought electricity, running water, affordable food and public housing, and an abolition of the bride dowry which has demeaned Indian women for far too long. We must continue along this path towards economic emancipation-“Mid-sentence, a loud boom, followed by a white flash, was heard, engulfing the stage in black smoke and flame.

The Prime Minister addresses an election-eve rally in Tuensang, with over 3000 in attendance.

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“You heard it for at least 3 kilometres. If you didn’t hear it you heard the screams of the wounded, the dying, and most importantly, the smell.”

The aftermath
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Amethi, 11:47 AM

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After finishing his stump speech, Sanjay left the podium for his Zil limousine where he would fly to the airport to rejoin his mother in Delhi at 2, but as he entered an aide ran up. “Sanjay, something terrible has happened. A bomb exploded at your mother’s event, right underneath the stage where she was speaking. She was probably killed given the proximity.” Shocked, grieved, but determined to fulfill his mother’s wishes, he jumped into the limousine and began issuing orders over the inbuilt RT as the limousine, flanked by Army jeeps, roared down the dirt roads at speeds approaching 80 miles an hour towards the airport and the waiting Air Force Cub transport that would fly him home. I need to find Rajiv and B.K.

Sanjay Gandhi leaves Amethi enroute to Delhi after being informed of his mother's death.
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Attached to 26 Squadron, 1st Transport Wing (VIP), this An-12 Cub is popularly known as "Air Force Two".

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Delhi, 4:30 PM
The Cabinet, with Acting Prime Minister Kareem Singh presiding, welcomed the exhausted, grieving, but furious Gandhi brothers back to the PMO. Singh spoke: “Sanjay, the election is two days from now. You are the only one who can keep the country together. Immediately the Home Minister, V.K. Gujra, a consistent Sanjay opponent, thought of speaking up but decided not to. In his heart he knew the backbenchers, the rank and file members and most likely the country wanted Sanjay, and saw no point in resisting. With barely a moment’s hesitation Sanjay replied: “let’s wait until the 5th.”

“This is Mark Tully reporting from Delhi. We are now projecting that Congress will form a majority government, with even larger gains than expected following the assassination of Indira Gandhi and two of her Cabinet ministers at an election rally in Tuensang two days ago. A senior Secretariat source tells me that the likelihood of Sanjay Gandhi being designated Prime Minister is “between 99.998 and 99.999 percent”, but not official confirmation as of yet. If that is the case he is widely expected to purge many of his mother’s ministers and replace them with loyalists.”

Indian general election, 1976
5 March 1976
518 seats in the 7th Lok Sabha
Congress: 411 seats, 50.1% (+40, +6.3%)
NDF: 100 seats, 35.4%
Other: 7 seats
Incumbent Prime Minister: Kareem Singh (INC)
Prime Minister-designate: Sanjay Gandhi (INC)

President’s Residence, 9:30 A.M.
“A word of advice Sanjay: remember who elected you and you’ll do fine.” “Of course, I understand Mr. President.” Senile old bastard he thought quietly to himself as he left for the Prime Minister's Residence. So much work to be done...

President Ahmed swears in Prime Minister Sanjay Gandhi and his Cabinet at the President's Residence.
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Quite a few notes, so bear with me.
1) The Prime Minister's Secretariat is the equivalent of the Prime Minister's Office in other Commonwealth countries.

2) P.N. Dhar was Indira's chief of staff from 1967 to 1977 IOTL. He was dismissed after trying to warn of Sanjay's excessive influence and improper assumption of domestic policy authority- in essence becoming a deputy prime minister in all but name.

3) Maruti is Sanjay's notorious car company which was granted a license in 1968 to produce an Indian Volkswagen over 17 foreign and domestic competitors. It quickly turned into a white elephant and never produced more than 100 cars despite
massive government assistance. His only experience was an uncompleted Rolls-Royce apprenticeship in Britain.

4) The 20-Point Programme was Indira's official Emergency manifesto. Sanjay's Five-Point Programme was by far the better known, and consisted of the following: abolition of the bride dowry, "environment beautification", which boiled down to "clear the slums with bulldozers come hell or high water", increased literacy "each one teach one", ending the caste system, and most notoriously, as depicted by Rohinton Mistry, family planning, aka mass sterilization.

5) He was an arch-cynic, so his campaign speeches should not be taken at face value. Like his brother, Sanjay was a conservative free-marketeer, but was deeply authoritarian, unlike anyone else in the family. His role model was Ferdinand Marcos, which should give you a good idea of where he wants to go.

6) "Indira Hatao" (Indira Out) was a slogan from the 1971 campaign coined by Indira's opponent in her Rae Bareilli constituency, which turned out to be a self-parody of the opposition.

7) Kareen Singh was the Minister of Health. To this day he claims that he was unaware of the excesses of family planning, which of course was under his ministry's jurisdiction if largely directed by Sanjay. Most likely he turned a blind eye.

8) George Fernandes had led a million railway workers on strike in the summer of 1974 with the express aim of winning a confronation with the government. It was crushed by the government and Fernandes is still an outlaw despite being one of the most hated men in India. It is broadly comparable to the NUM strike of 1984 in the UK. Many suspect, as of 1976, that Fernandez was behind the bombing.

9) President Ahmed was a pliant tool of Indira's who could be counted on to sign whatever was placed in front of him, regardless of constitutionality or legal niceties, even though he had the reserve power of a veto.

10) Sanjay was reasonably close to his mother, had a distant, lukewarm-to-chilly relationship with Rajiv, but mostly hung around with friends of a similar age and background who were sycophantic.

11) As of 1976 Rajiv is still an Indian Airlines 737 pilot based at the domestic hub of Lucknow, flying Lucknow-Bombay runs.
 
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