New York as a British exclave?

New York State (I don't think a city-state Hong Kong deal would survive) would essentially be OTL Canada.

Many of the loyalists who founded what we know of as Canada would probably go to NY instead. As would many of the loyalists who went to Europe and the Caribbean, I imagine.

ETA: I think "West Jersey," Manhattan, Long Island, Staten Island and the Hudson Valley up to and including West Point would be the absolute minimum.

Do you really think that the New Englanders and the people of the Middle States are going to permit the bisection of the colonies and the isolation of New England from the other colonies?

It is true OTL that many of the Loyalist New Englanders and New Yorkers settled the Ottawa Valley, the area around OTL Toronto, and the Eastern Townships in Quebec. I would expect a similar exodus, even if the newborn United States keeps most of NY State.
 
Do you really think that the New Englanders and the people of the Middle States are going to permit the bisection of the colonies and the isolation of New England from the other colonies?

This is what I was wondering, though I'm open to hearing other ideas. I was kind of hoping that someone might have some examples of the founding fathers' views on territorial integrity, and what exactly constituted too great of a geopolitical sacrifice - i.e. what extent the US republic could not function without certain pieces of land. However, I'm loving the various ideas put forward - quite informative. Please keep them coming if anyone has any more.
 
I don't see the British holding onto an isolated area like New York City. Trade to the US would be diverted to other cities like Philadelphia and Boston. Tariffs would make NYC a poor place to serve as an entrepot and the city would suffer greatly, making it useless to the British. Worse, you invite a future war where the US will attack and conquer the city. No one would want such a nightmare.

The British were very generous to the US in the Treaty of Paris, as they wanted to woo the US away from their French alliance. Keeping New York City would go against that.
 
I don't see the British holding onto an isolated area like New York City. Trade to the US would be diverted to other cities like Philadelphia and Boston. Tariffs would make NYC a poor place to serve as an entrepot and the city would suffer greatly, making it useless to the British. Worse, you invite a future war where the US will attack and conquer the city. No one would want such a nightmare.

The British were very generous to the US in the Treaty of Paris, as they wanted to woo the US away from their French alliance. Keeping New York City would go against that.

If the British held on to the North and the South, as well as keeping their Indian allies, they might be quite keen on a future war at some point. I can also imagine they would be willing to keep NYC as a loss-making colony due to its strategic use.
 
I almost think it would be better for the British to hold Staten Island rather than New York for an exclave. It is largers and more easily defendable than Manhattan Island.
 
Do you really think that the New Englanders and the people of the Middle States are going to permit the bisection of the colonies and the isolation of New England from the other colonies?

This would also require George III to write off his other colonies and concentrate all hi available force in the Hudson and Mohawk valleys.

With 20/20 hindsight, this might have been the smartest approach, but I can't see the King doing it.
 

Skokie

Banned
Do you really think that the New Englanders and the people of the Middle States are going to permit the bisection of the colonies and the isolation of New England from the other colonies?

Most New Englanders went west directly across the plains of Albany into the Mohawk Valley. In one scenario, if the Brits control the Hudson south of West Point, the New Englanders would still be able to fulfill their historical/religious mission to settle the Great Lakes. ;)

I'm sure the Americans will not appreciate it, much like they did not appreciate the Brits in Niagara. But then the Brits will kick their ass and they'll come to accept it.

Two Canadas! One along the St Lawrence with anchors in Niagara and Quebec, and the southerly "Canada" along the Hudson anchored by the Battery in Manhattan and West Point.

It is true OTL that many of the Loyalist New Englanders and New Yorkers settled the Ottawa Valley, the area around OTL Toronto, and the Eastern Townships in Quebec. I would expect a similar exodus, even if the newborn United States keeps most of NY State.

I imagine this would allow Canada to remain mostly French. They'd probably spread into Ontario...but not further, given their small numbers.
 
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