New World Order: The Anglo-American Post-War

Most intriguing to have TTL 1960s Portugal as the equivalent as OTL 1990s Yugoslavia (a quasi-fascist power holding domain over a broader territory that is resisting the "End of History").

I would like to see more developments about the TTL feminist movement. CalBear described it as "sexual evolution" rather than "sexual revolution". I can totally see an alternative rise of "beatniks" in this reality although it would be due to a loosening of tension after wartime austerity rather than disillusionment with a seemingly suicidal nuclear arms race.

I would also be keen to see developments in TTL Eastern Europe and especially the Balkans. The Balkans seem like one of the few areas of Europe that would be better off in OTL. According the CalBear, the ancien regimes were largely reinstated (including in European Russia!) although under democratic lines.
 
I am deeply curious about social progress

Considering a Stalinist colossus can no longer be used as an evil boogeyman, will social change arrive a lot sooner than OTL.


And would we see reaction to this change in the form of an ATL Moral Majority movement?
 
I am deeply curious about social progress

Considering a Stalinist colossus can no longer be used as an evil boogeyman, will social change arrive a lot sooner than OTL.


And would we see reaction to this change in the form of an ATL Moral Majority movement?

CalBear claimed in one comment of the original TL that the US is leftier than that of OTL. Firstly, because there is no Soviet bogeyman to make the population frightened of excessive statism. Secondly, there will be no Vietnam and therefore no global economic crisis to discredit the "New Deal Consensus" like in the OTL 1970s.

However, CalBear showed in the original that both Goldwater (1964 - 1972) and RFK (1972 - 1980) are upcoming presidents. I personally can't wait.

Speaking of RFK, if Star Eater wants a good resource on him, I would recommend Mitchell Freedman's alternate history book "A Disturbance of Fate: The Presidency of Robert F Kennedy"
 
Bear in mind that this timeline isn't necessarily going to go in the same direction as what CalBear laid out, hence it being an alternate interpretation. As far as this timeline is concerned, the only already-established canon are the words of the original story, including any references to post-war events which have to be factored in.
 
CalBear claimed in one comment of the original TL that the US is leftier than that of OTL. Firstly, because there is no Soviet bogeyman to make the population frightened of excessive statism. Secondly, there will be no Vietnam and therefore no global economic crisis to discredit the "New Deal Consensus" like in the OTL 1970s.

However, CalBear showed in the original that both Goldwater (1964 - 1972) and RFK (1972 - 1980) are upcoming presidents. I personally can't wait.

Speaking of RFK, if Star Eater wants a good resource on him, I would recommend Mitchell Freedman's alternate history book "A Disturbance of Fate: The Presidency of Robert F Kennedy"

I don't think the actions of the US government are purely altruistic.

While the US maybe more genuinely interested in spreading freedom, it may be interested in far more than that.
 
I don't think the actions of the US government are purely altruistic.

While the US maybe more genuinely interested in spreading freedom, it may be interested in far more than that.

Could US actions against Portugal be for these gentlemen perhaps;)

skull_bones.jpg


Or even these ones

white-house-chief-of-staff-donald-rumsfeld-working-w-aide-dick-cheney-picture-id50370449
 
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Could US actions against Portugal be for these gentlemen perhaps;)

skull_bones.jpg

HA HA HA HA! :rolleyes:

But if the story of Charles Horman is anything, it is that the world can be more scary than anything a conspiracy theory produces.

I wonder what Bush 41 will be up to. Did he survive the ITTL World War II?
 

MERRICA

Banned
Why is the US more left than in OTL?

My main point is that while the US will almost certainly be more left on certain issues on Civil rights and LGBT rights. It will almost certainly be more conservative on other issues like the Economy.

Also, i think that there will likely still be a "Red" boogeyman of sorts. Seeing as how far-left and Communist movements have now been thoroughly discredited seeing the Soviet Union crumble under the Nazi invasion. This fact could be used by Anti-Socialist politicians who would probably state that communism and socialism were the main reasons why the Soviet Union was defeated and it's citizens almost exterminated by the Germans.
 
My main point is that while the US will almost certainly be more left on certain issues on Civil rights and LGBT rights. It will almost certainly be more conservative on other issues like the Economy.

Also, i think that there will likely still be a "Red" boogeyman of sorts. Seeing as how far-left and Communist movements have now been thoroughly discredited seeing the Soviet Union crumble under the Nazi invasion. This fact could be used by Anti-Socialist politicians who would probably state that communism and socialism were the main reasons why the Soviet Union was defeated and it's citizens almost exterminated by the Germans.

Well, I highly doubt that Socialism would receive the same appeal that it did in OTL (especially among the radical New Left of the OTL 1960s given that most of their role models (e.g. Castro, Mao, Ho Chi Minh) will be unknowns), I would also say that economics would be leftier than in OTL. Contrary to popular myth, the Eisenhower era of OTL was not a period of ultra-conservativism where the McCarthyist hordes swept up the remnants of the New Deal. In fact, the Eisenhower administration actually expanded various elements of the New Deal such as the creation of the Departments of Welfare, Education, and Health. Ike also outraged the "states rights" individuals when he sent the troops into Little Rock to protect black high school students. There was actually a book that came out in OTL 1960 called "The End of Ideology", which argued that all major parties in the Western World agreed on a set of free market principles but with the state serving the important role of guiding the economy and supporting society. At the present, it almost seems laughable. The myth of the conservative 1950s was created through the fogged lens of the "culture wars" and the civil rights movement, even though Eisenhower once referred to segregation as "criminally stupid". Additional reading material that dispels this myth includes "Bad Old Days: The Myth of the 1950s", "Rethinking the 1950s: How Anticommunism and the Cold War Made America Liberal", and "Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus". The difference between now and then was that "liberal" economics were argued by technocrats or "squares" instead of "beatniks".

I would also add that the initial Bretton Woods Treaty of OTL that was set up to govern free trade did so under the principle of "embedded liberalism". This term refers to how the governments of the ("free") world should promote free trade but the state should still serve a role to co-ordinate and guide the economy (i.e. Keynesian economics). In reality, economic conservativism became popular in the 1970s when the governments of the world were losing control of the world economy to rapid inflation. It was at this time when Friedmanian economics began to usurp Keynesian economics.
 

MERRICA

Banned
Thanks for the info! So the US will definatly be more left than OTL, but I still maintain that Socialism and Communism will be a lot less popular than OTL
 
Thanks for the info! So the US will definatly be more left than OTL, but I still maintain that Socialism and Communism will be a lot less popular than OTL

It could be more its far less of a toleration of right wing regimes given the scope of Nazi atrocities and the US clearly wanting to completely distance itself from any vestige that would suggest any similar policy with them, than it is a greater love affair with the left.
 
Subscribed. I still view CalBear's A/A-NW (regular TL and post-script) as the ultimate word, but what you're doing is something very interesting and unique indeed. Hope you can continue this TL; I'd like to see what's happened to Croatia, considering how vague CB was when he answered questions about it (which itself was pretty rare).

It's also nice to see that you're focusing on popular culture, another thing that I felt CalBear mostly ignored in his timeline. I'd definitely like to see the alternate version of heavy metal that CB described and see what equivalent (if any) punk rock and all its outgrowths has in this Cold War-less world.
 

Wendigo

Banned
Subscribed. I still view CalBear's A/A-NW (regular TL and post-script) as the ultimate word, but what you're doing is something very interesting and unique indeed. Hope you can continue this TL; I'd like to see what's happened to Croatia, considering how vague CB was when he answered questions about it (which itself was pretty rare).

It's also nice to see that you're focusing on popular culture, another thing that I felt CalBear mostly ignored in his timeline. I'd definitely like to see the alternate version of heavy metal that CB described and see what equivalent (if any) punk rock and all its outgrowths has in this Cold War-less world.

I'd be willing to bet with over a decade to carry out their sick plans that there would be no Serbs left under Ustasha rule. They'd all be brutally killed, deported to Germany to be worked to death or converted.

Also I'd like to see the horrific effects of Generalplan Ost on Poland and the occupied USSR in terms of the deaths and the destroyed cities.

In CalBear's TL the Nazis got close to completing GP Ost with a death toll of over 80 million Slavs in less than 20 years.

50% of Latvians, 75% of Lithuanians, 65% of Ukrainians, 75% of Belorussians, 80-85% of Poles, 50% of Estonians, and 75% of Russians were designated to be worked to death or starved with the survivors enslaved on German farms.

What do the survivors do considering their respective nations have been obliterated and their homes and cities destroyed brick by brick and all they've known for over a decade is hard labor on German settlements as serfs?

Something about the Nazi medical experimentation program which became similar to OTL Unit 731 in terms of scope and scale would be nice too. A defeated Soviet Union and over 100 million subhumans to "expend" means that Nazi doctors like Mengele will have all the test subjects they could ever want to carry out experiments, weapons testing etc.
 
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