New States For The U.S.A. (A challenge)

CHALLENGE! Convince England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland to become American states! Think of what London would be like as an American city! Think of Irishmen in solidarity with their brothers in the U.S.A.!

Now, if this sounds preposterous, please allow me to point out that Hawaii was a "united kingdom" ruled by a king and queen, yet it became a U.S. state.

Exciting, or what?
 

Bomster

Banned
CHALLENGE! Convince England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland to become American states! Think of what London would be like as an American city! Think of Irishmen in solidarity with their brothers in the U.S.A.!

Now, if this sounds preposterous, please allow me to point out that Hawaii was a "united kingdom" ruled by a king and queen, yet it became a U.S. state.

Exciting, or what?
Here’s a silly idea.

It’s been four years since the Great War began, and since then the once eager European powers have been reduced to demoralized shells of their former selves. With Russia now embroiled in socialist revolution, Britain, France, and Italy are now running on fumes, their soldiers demoralized and their peoples starving.

Britain and France, on the breaking point, pray for America to jump in on their side and turn the tide of the war. However, the American people, who had eagerly supported the imperialist Spanish-American War only 20 years ago, now want no part in the European bloodshed. With no hope of outside help in sight, the Entente begins to fall apart.

First Italy signs a treaty with Austria-Hungary after workers revolt in Milan, losing no territory but knocking it out of the war.

Then France, her army and people having suffered the most, breaks out into civil war, her government forced to sign a treaty with Germany ceding land in the north so that it can focus on containing the rebels who have raised the red flags of the old Commune in Paris.

Finally Great Britain. Inspired by their comrades in Paris and Milan and Petrograd, the proletariat of Britain rise up, joined by Irish nationalists, to end the corrupt government that got them into this destructive war in the first place. With chaos reigning in Britain and the Royal family forced to flee from London the British government agrees to peace, ending the Great War in 1919.

Eventually the Entente rebellions are crushed, killed by their own disorganization. Throughout the 1920s Britain, France, and Italy start to normalize as their economies stabilize.
Russia also returns to an authoritarian republic after Denikin takes Moscow with help from the Germans. The Entente tries to ease itself into this new
Pax Germanica, but tensions are still high as they hold deep grudges against the Germans.

America remains unperturbed by this. Content in their isolation, the American people enjoy the fruits of war as European nations buy their goods and food.

Then in 1929 the American and German stock exchanges crash, sending the world into the Great Depression. The nationalistic tendencies bubbling under the surfaces of the former Entente break out as Britain, France, Italy, and Russia all veer to the far right. Dictators emerge. Churchill in Britain. Petain in France. Mussolini in Italy. Russia returns to the monarchy with the Romanovs taking back the throne. Genocides occur, with Jews, Socialists, and dissidents being the primary targets. In Ireland, British troops lead killings against the Irish.

The work of social democrats in Germany and the New Deal in America prevent those nations from falling too, but the damage has been down, and the road to another war has begun.

1939: the former Entente team up once more to strike down the German eagle once and for all. Now much stronger and more militarized than ever, they push the Germans all the way past the Rhine, while the Russians threaten Berlin after their massive armies flood Eastern Europe.

1941: Britain, fearing America’s strength, conducts a pre-emptive attack along America’s coasts. President Roosevelt declares war on the Entente, jointing the Germans. Canada is quickly seized, and the naval Battle of the Atlantic begins between America and Germany, and Britain. The allies (America, Germany) is formed.

1944-1945: The War is almost over. With American help Germany has pushed the western Entente back across the Rhine, while Russia’s advance in the east has stalled, and been pushed back. Finally, Paris falls, and Americans and Germans march triumphantly into the city. The British, however, refuse to give up. Despite the destruction of His Magesty’s Royal Navy and the blockade of the island, as well as the American invasion of Ireland, the British government still won’t give up, with Supreme Lord Churchill declaring that the British will “Never surrender”. The British force the American hand. On June 6th, 1944, the Americans invade Britain from the west, while Germany invades from the south. After some gains the invasion stalls from massive British resistance, products of ideological brainwashing from the ruling parties. King Edward commands all able British citizens, whether they be English, Welsh, or Scottish, child or elderly, to defend their island to the death. All while King Edward and his family prepare to evacuate themselves to loyal South Africa. Faced with the possibility of further destruction and death for their own soldiers and for the remaining civilians of Britain, America and Germany decide to end the war quickly with a new bomb. In August of 1945, atom bombs developed by the Germans are dropped on Portsmouth and Devonport. With the threat of further attacks from the Americans, as well as the Germans surrounding London, Supreme Lord Churchill surrenders to the Allies. America occupies the destroyed islands of Ireland and Great Britain.

With millions of British dead, and with almost no infrastructure left, the islands were left as husks. America would hold onto the islands to redevelop them. As more and more American soldiers and British women married, the culture of Britain become more and more Americanized. Eventually, the islands would be annexed into the United States, becoming the states of Ireland, Scotland, Northumbria, Wales, Midlands, Wessex and London.

This is a very inaccurate scenario, but it could be possible in another world.
 
Last edited:

GarethC

Donor
CHALLENGE! Convince England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland to become American states! Think of what London would be like as an American city! Think of Irishmen in solidarity with their brothers in the U.S.A.!

Now, if this sounds preposterous, please allow me to point out that Hawaii was a "united kingdom" ruled by a king and queen, yet it became a U.S. state.

Exciting, or what?

1983. Able Archer goes hot. US, USSR, Europe devastated.

1984. PRC lands humanitarian mission which occupies western seabord north of Los Angeles, annexes Hawaii.

1985. Smallpox outbreak in Johannesburg, Durban.

1986. Indo-Pakistani War. Indian first-use devastates Pakistan

1988. Indian humanitarian aid concentrates on mineral-rich areas as RSA ceases to be a functioning sovereign state.

1990. Mexican Intervention. Mexican and PRC occupation forces clash in the Los Angeles DMZ. Within a month, PLA marines have seized Baja, while the PLA has swept east to occupy all of Texas as the PLAAF quickly gains air supremacy. PLA occupation of key urban remnants effectively annexes Canada.

1992. Sino-Mercosur war. Continuing tension over North American farm production, even though the nuclear winter effects are easing, leads to an initial Mercosur naval success, with the loss of a PLA carrier group. Even with PLA expansion of the Pacific island holdings, the naval war peters out.

1993. String of Pearls Extension - PLA begins new bases in Iceland and British Isles

1996. Administrative re-organisation - all former Anglophone territories become new administrative districts of the People's Republic of Oceania, including the former USA, Canada, UK, and RoI.
 
Here’s a silly idea.

It’s been four years since the Great War began, and since then the once eager European powers have been reduced to demoralized shells of their former selves. With Russia now embroiled in socialist revolution, Britain, France, and Italy are now running on fumes, their soldiers demoralized and their peoples starving.

Britain and France, on the breaking point, pray for America to jump in on their side and turn the tide of the war. However, the American people, who had eagerly supported the imperialist Spanish-American War only 20 years ago, now want no part in the European bloodshed. With no hope of outside help in sight, the Entente begins to fall apart.

First Italy signs a treaty with Austria-Hungary after workers revolt in Milan, losing no territory but knocking it out of the war.

Then France, her army and people having suffered the most, breaks out into civil war, her government forced to sign a treaty with Germany ceding land in the north so that it can focus on containing the rebels who have raised the red flags of the old Commune in Paris.

Finally Great Britain. Inspired by their comrades in Paris and Milan and Petrograd, the proletariat of Britain rise up, joined by Irish nationalists, to end the corrupt government that got them into this destructive war in the first place. With chaos reigning in Britain and the Royal family forced to flee from London the British government agrees to peace, ending the Great War in 1919.

Eventually the Entente rebellions are crushed, killed by their own disorganization. Throughout the 1920s Britain, France, and Italy start to normalize as their economies stabilize.
Russia also returns to an authoritarian republic after Denikin takes Moscow with help from the Germans. The Entente tries to ease itself into this new
Pax Germanica, but tensions are still high as they hold deep grudges against the Germans.

America remains unperturbed by this. Content in their isolation, the American people enjoy the fruits of war as European nations buy their goods and food.

Then in 1929 the American and German stock exchanges crash, sending the world into the Great Depression. The nationalistic tendencies bubbling under the surfaces of the former Entente break out as Britain, France, Italy, and Russia all veer to the far right. Dictators emerge. Churchill in Britain. Petain in France. Mussolini in Italy. Russia returns to the monarchy with the Romanovs taking back the throne. Genocides occur, with Jews, Socialists, and dissidents being the primary targets. In Ireland, British troops lead killings against the Irish.

The work of social democrats in Germany and the New Deal in America prevent those nations from falling too, but the damage has been down, and the road to another war has begun.

1939: the former Entente team up once more to strike down the German eagle once and for all. Now much stronger and more militarized than ever, they push the Germans all the way past the Rhine, while the Russians threaten Berlin after their massive armies flood Eastern Europe.

1941: Britain, fearing America’s strength, conducts a pre-emptive attack along America’s coasts. President Roosevelt declares war on the Entente, jointing the Germans. Canada is quickly seized, and the naval Battle of the Atlantic begins between America and Germany, and Britain. The allies (America, Germany) is formed.

1944-1945: The War is almost over. With American help Germany has pushed the western Entente back across the Rhine, while Russia’s advance in the east has stalled, and been pushed back. Finally, Paris falls, and Americans and Germans march triumphantly into the city. The British, however, refuse to give up. Despite the destruction of His Magesty’s Royal Navy and the blockade of the island, as well as the American invasion of Ireland, the British government still won’t give up, with Supreme Lord Churchill declaring that the British will “Never surrender”. The British force the American hand. On June 6th, 1944, the Americans invade Britain from the west, while Germany invades from the south. After some gains the invasion stalls from massive British resistance, products of ideological brainwashing from the ruling parties. King Edward commands all able British citizens, whether they be English, Welsh, or Scottish, child or elderly, to defend their island to the death. All while King Edward and his family prepare to evacuate themselves to loyal South Africa. Faced with the possibility of further destruction and death for their own soldiers and for the remaining civilians of Britain, America and Germany decide to end the war quickly with a new bomb. In August of 1945, atom bombs developed by the Germans are dropped on Portsmouth and Devonport. With the threat of further attacks from the Americans, as well as the Germans surrounding London, Supreme Lord Churchill surrenders to the Allies. America occupies the destroyed islands of Ireland and Great Britain.

With millions of British dead, and with almost no infrastructure left, the islands were left as husks. America would hold onto the islands to redevelop them. As more and more American soldiers and British women married, the culture of Britain become more and more Americanized. Eventually, the islands would be annexed into the United States, becoming the states of Ireland, Scotland, Northumbria, Wales, Midlands, Wessex and London.

This is a very inaccurate scenario, but it could be possible in another world.


What would British voices sound like, after years of Americanization? What would a thoroughly Americanized London look like? Who would the British send to represent them in Congress?
 
One, England would likely be broken into several states, not just one.

As for a POD... lets say USA joins Central Powers, gets Canada as war gains, buys Greenland and Iceland from Denmark.

Britain meanwhile, turns nasty in its defeat. Turns communist/syndicalist/fascist. Stews for a few decades. Becomes a full scale police state.

USA meanwhile, has digested Canada successfully, and sort of become defecto head of a remnant Angloaphere that broke with a now tyranical Britain.

There is another war, Britain loses, badly. Already impverished and backward, now bombed to hell, Britain is desperate. In comes the USA, who as part of occupation, brings in something like the Marshall Plan.

When the time comes to decide what to do post war, there is talk of a Republic... but also chatter of another idea, of statehood for Britain and Ireland within the USA. The idea gains steam on both sides over time, and the last vote of a short lived British Republic is to appprove the annexation treaty.

Now its the new Millinium, and the USA spans from Hawaii to London, with 7-8 states formed by Britain and Ireland.
 
Alternate WWII, all Europe is occupied by a totalitarian power, whether it be a competent German dictatorship or the USSR or WWIII follows immediately after WWII.

The US is left as the only significant power standing. They say 'never again', and declare a monopoly on advanced weaponry, e.g. jet planes and nukes. Anyone who tries violating it ban gets InstaSun.
Sort of like @CalBear 's A4, but strictly US, and more restrictive. However, this US is open to new states joining if they meet certain minimum requirements. Like democracy, 50% adult literacy in English, etc. Canada enters as 7 states (Quebec holds out for a better linguistic deal, Newfoundland isn't part of Canada yet, and PEI is told they're just too tiny).

After some time, the new states of Ireland, Norn, Scotland, Wales and Northumbria, Anglia and Wessex (say) join the US.

Whether that happens before or Norway and the Netherlands is an interesting question.
 
What would British voices sound like, after years of Americanization? What would a thoroughly Americanized London look like?
Not particularly different, one would imagine. We already live in an era where Britons are very much exposed to American culture on a daily basis, so it wouldn't be too much of a change.
 
Not particularly different, one would imagine. We already live in an era where Britons are very much exposed to American culture on a daily basis, so it wouldn't be too much of a change.

But what happens to Buckingham Palace? Does it become a museum? Would London cops carry guns? Would all cars on London streets be American?
 
But what happens to Buckingham Palace? Does it become a museum? Would London cops carry guns? Would all cars on London streets be American?
1. Probably. Alternative uses could be as an excessively opulent Governor's Mansion, or as a British Presidential retreat.
2. Some do already. I don't imagine that Britain would be legally required to equip all its police with firearms under federal law, so it would probably be a question of whether their is the political will for it. Depending on the PoD, I can still see UK Conservatives (or Republicans) being to the left of most of the mainland US, especially on issues like gun laws, so there probably wouldn't be any great change. The constitution would probably head off the kind of gun control measures that we have enacted post-Dunblane though.
3. I haven't been to the US, but I am fairly sure not all cars on streets are American even there. For various reasons, you'd probably see more US Cars on British streets than IOTL, but still a significant presence of foreign made cars, as in any US state.
 
Why would England be broken up? It’d be the biggest state (in pop terms) but you only have to look at California to see the US is willing to tolerate immense states. American politics would be significantly to the left of their current position given England, Wales and Scotland would all consistently vote for liberals or (very) moderate conservatives.
 
CHALLENGE! Convince England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland to become American states! Think of what London would be like as an American city! Think of Irishmen in solidarity with their brothers in the U.S.A.!

Now, if this sounds preposterous, please allow me to point out that Hawaii was a "united kingdom" ruled by a king and queen, yet it became a U.S. state.

Exciting, or what?
Here you go.
If London Were Like New York: A Peek At The Metropolis After The American Invasion
 
Why would England be broken up? It’d be the biggest state (in pop terms) but you only have to look at California to see the US is willing to tolerate immense states. American politics would be significantly to the left of their current position given England, Wales and Scotland would all consistently vote for liberals or (very) moderate conservatives.
Senate allocation.
 

DougM

Donor
What if the US stays out of WW1 but allowed more loans to England. Then the war goes against England. Leaving the US loans to fail with predictable effect on the US Economy.
The US has stuck its nose in before when economic issues got in the way so it is not unknown.
You start with Ireland using the loans as leverage then get Scotland its independence. That does not go well for them but they see how well (relatively) Ireland is doing so they come on board.
Maybe England gets into trouble again with a Recovered Germany and has no choice but to ask the US for protection as it is still broke.

Remember at one point England suggest bring France in if they stayed fighting in WW2. So if England can see bringing FRANCE in it is possible that they could see themselves joining the US.
 
We could get some new states easily enough, if the measure to break up California into 3 separate states ever worked out.
 
Why would England be broken up? It’d be the biggest state (in pop terms) but you only have to look at California to see the US is willing to tolerate immense states. American politics would be significantly to the left of their current position given England, Wales and Scotland would all consistently vote for liberals or (very) moderate conservatives.
It would be about one and a half times bigger than California. Sure, California exists - but there's no way to force an existing state to split, and it was much, much smaller when it joined.
OTOH, any scenario that has the UK join the US means the UK is in desperate trouble, and might have a much lower population than otl.
 
Oh, one more item: the Irish.

If Ireland becomes a U.S. state, then the Irish cease to be Irish and would be considered Americans. The feeling I get is that, after centuries of fighting British rule, they wouldn't be pleased to have American masters. Right?
 
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