New partecipants to WW1

We all know that the central powers in WW1 were composed by Germany, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman empire and Bulgaria. What I've been thinking is: what if Italy, Spain, Romania, Albania, Japan and Siam joined WW1 on the central power side? If I'm correct, all of them had some claims against the Entente. What if this leaded into a central power victory? How would the world look like? What would the map look like? Can someone make a map showing the territorial changes in cause of this central power victory?
 
We all know that the central powers in WW1 were composed by Germany, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman empire and Bulgaria. What I've been thinking is: what if Italy, Spain, Romania, Albania, Japan and Siam joined WW1 on the central power side? If I'm correct, all of them had some claims against the Entente. What if this leaded into a central power victory? How would the world look like? What would the map look like? Can someone make a map showing the territorial changes in cause of this central power victory?

Italy: Perhaps if it gets good enough deal from CPs. Austria-Hungary would has one front more so it means that it has easier in Serbia. Instead France would has two fronts to handle instead one. But one problem would be UK embargo against Italy and perhaps even landing attempt.
Spain: I don't see any reason why it would join. And Spain was very backward on this time. UK would crush that like a bug.
Romania: Perhaps if king Carol I, who was pro-CP lives longer and is able to influence parliament. Not sure how it would fare on the war.
Albania: I can't see Albania joining to war if not be pressured. And wasn't Albania even bigger joke as Austria-Hungary?
Japan: Perhaps it is sure that it can win war against colonial forces of UK and France. And USA might too be against Japan.
Siam: Had that even any capacity against France and UK?
 
Italy: Perhaps if it gets good enough deal from CPs. Austria-Hungary would has one front more so it means that it has easier in Serbia. Instead France would has two fronts to handle instead one. But one problem would be UK embargo against Italy and perhaps even landing attempt.
Spain: I don't see any reason why it would join. And Spain was very backward on this time. UK would crush that like a bug.
Romania: Perhaps if king Carol I, who was pro-CP lives longer and is able to influence parliament. Not sure how it would fare on the war.
Albania: I can't see Albania joining to war if not be pressured. And wasn't Albania even bigger joke as Austria-Hungary?
Japan: Perhaps it is sure that it can win war against colonial forces of UK and France. And USA might too be against Japan.
Siam: Had that even any capacity against France and UK?

Italy: Agree
Spain: Im not so sure. Yes Spain was weak but Brittain has to spare the troops while fighting Germany and Italy.
Romania: Agree
Albania: Albania was very Austria friendly because it saw Austria as the one country who sided with it during the Balkan wars. And they are right to do so, because honestly, without Austrian interference and insistence ther wouldnt have been an Albania. This doesnt mean alliance thorugh. They are however not very consequential.
Japan: Please note that Brittain cant send its fleet to fight Japan as long as the Hochseeflotte exists. Without USA involvment this would be a big proble for GB.
Siam: They arent strong and easily beaten - if they just can spare the troops. Same as Spain in this regard.
 
Albania: I can't see Albania joining to war if not be pressured. And wasn't Albania even bigger joke as Austria-Hungary?
What do you mean? A-H was a great power while Albania was a minor state in the Balkans. No real reason to compare them in any way.
 
Albania didn't even have a functioning government at the time. Spain was in a very weak and unstable state. Public opinion in Romania made it pretty much impossible to join the Central Powers - even keeping neutrality was hard enough. Italy could have joined, but you'd need to radically change Austria's policy and prevent it from snubbing Italy again and again.
Now, Japan (and Siam) could be interesting, idk.
 
We all know that the central powers in WW1 were composed by Germany, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman empire and Bulgaria. What I've been thinking is: what if Italy, Spain, Romania, Albania, Japan and Siam joined WW1 on the central power side? If I'm correct, all of them had some claims against the Entente. What if this leaded into a central power victory? How would the world look like? What would the map look like? Can someone make a map showing the territorial changes in cause of this central power victory?
You did not mentioned the Netherlands who for some reason joins the central powers in some ALT hisitry stories i read.
 
Now, Japan (and Siam) could be interesting, idk.
Japan was allied to Britain at the time...

Japan: Please note that Brittain cant send its fleet to fight Japan as long as the Hochseeflotte exists.
I'm reasonably sure the Hochseeflotte is not a great threat to the British naval bases in East and Southeast Asia
and formations based at them as long as the fleets based in Britain itself exists.
How much of a threat the British fleets in Asia are to the Japanese navy is another question.
 
There is more argument for most of these nations to remain neutral and ride out the war. Romania or Greece offer the better alternatives with a German friendly monarch and pro-Entente government or popular sentiment, where the fortunes of war could perhaps better sway things. Romania cannot join the war if the CP are more apparently winning, they could be tempted by an offer of Bessarabia, and so on. Greece likely stays neutral if Italy is not a belligerent and certainly does if Italy adds its navy to a CP naval war in the Med, it could only join the CP if they are far more powerful, hoping to preserve their territory versus any Bulgarian claims and gain the ear of Germany who can pressure the Ottomans regarding the Greek minority for example.

But I think it is interesting to see how they might have leaned, or shifted leanings, as the war progresses differently. In other words could events realign Spain from its pro-Entente leaning to a pro-CP alignment? As Spain moves forward would it end up at odds with the UK over Gibraltar and welcome Germany as its focus for investment, exports, arms, etc.? Would Japan realign from the British to the Russians if they at least do not crumble at war's end and still offer some strength to Japan's perceived need for an ally versus the USA? Would Albania be given to Italy where she aids the CPs? Does that put Italy and A-H back on track to compete for influence in the Balkans? Would a CP aligned Italy eventually leave the CPs for a British alliance after a disappointing war on the other side? The really weird ones to me are a neutral Belgium that was left out of the war. Does it fall into the German orbit in time? Or a Sweden, does it build a sort of neutral Nordic union or despite being neutral become a virtual vassal of the German economy (and thus Finland-ized)? How does a Norway balance itself between two remaining great powers?

Keep Imperial Germany and/or A-H post-war as weakened but surviving great powers opens a lot of doors to reshuffle things. I think Germany goes after Spain as an ally, she offers a way out of the North Sea bottleneck, same for Greece should the war not involve the Ottomans joining the CPs, it gets the Germans a way to counter the British in the Eastern Med. Germany might displace the UK in Japan's thinking had Germany emerged a more obvious peer to the British and Russia is reduced to a Republic that retires from her imperial ambitions. A more British Empire versus Imperial Germany oriented Europe sets in motion a realigning of interests, allies and gamesmanship.
 
Japan was allied to Britain at the time...


I'm reasonably sure the Hochseeflotte is not a great threat to the British naval bases in East and Southeast Asia
and formations based at them as long as the fleets based in Britain itself exists.
How much of a threat the British fleets in Asia are to the Japanese navy is another question.

I love this site! http://www.naval-history.net/xGW-RNOrganisation1914-1918.htm#east

The IJN would eat whatever the British had East Of Suez without a major injection of strength for either the Grand Fleet or the Med. As @Tibi088 implied stripping sufficient strength from the GF to provide a comfortable margin of superiority over the most modern IJN capital ships (for 3 dreadnoughts and one battlecruiser would require 4 BB and 2 BC 24/7 so the RN would have to send 5-6 BB and 3 BC) would close the gap between the German HSF and the GF from 28 BB and 9 BC to 22-23 BB and 6 BC against 16 BB and 5 BC at the time of Jutland.
http://www.naval-history.net/WW1Navy-Japanese_Navy_WW1.htm
 
We all know that the central powers in WW1 were composed by Germany, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman empire and Bulgaria. What I've been thinking is: what if Italy, Spain, Romania, Albania, Japan and Siam joined WW1 on the central power side? If I'm correct, all of them had some claims against the Entente. What if this leaded into a central power victory? How would the world look like? What would the map look like? Can someone make a map showing the territorial changes in cause of this central power victory?

Okay, well if it's just these new powers, I would say yes the Central powers will win ww1.

Italy on the side of the Central Powers means Austria-Hungary only needs to focus on Russia, and Serbia, meaning Russia is in a whole new world of hurt with those hundreds of thousands of more troops. France is also screwed because now they have to also fight Italy.

Spain also is gonna screw France with another front. France will lose this war in a year, no question. They can't handle Germany, Italy, and Spain at once.

If Romania joins, Russia is gonna have a thorn on it's back with Romanian troops rushing at the Russians with a surprise attack.

Albania is probably not going to be the most help the Austrians could get, but it does mean Austria can relax more troops in Serbia, and Montenegro.

You would have to change a lot with Japanese history to get them German-allied, but if you do, Japan would probably invade A bit of Russian Siberia, and allied land. Russia already has a lot on it's back, with Germany, Romania, Austria, and the Ottomans coming at them, that it's central allies want it to divert attention away from their fronts, and get more Russians against them. The Japanese would also take a lot of French and British colonies in the Pacific. Indochina though probably isn't going to happen.

Siam is pretty interesting. They'd probably be important to diverting Indian troops away from fronts like Mesopotamia. Although I think it would be fun to get Afganistan, and Siam against India because Germany had sent spies to get the Afghans to go to war with the British. Siam will probably attack Burma, but they might not have much success. They would probably launch an invasion of British Malaysia on Mainland East Asia. Indochina probably would be invaded until they get to the jungle because you just don't invade Indochina ever. They would probably not advance farther into the Jungles but seize important cities, and villages, but they can't advance farther in. I think though it would be a lot harder to advance into Burma.

As for a post-war map, Spain will probably get the rest of the Pyrenes mountains, Italy will probably take some french land gains, Romania will get a ton of land, and economic influence from Breske Litovsk

Albania will probably get a few Montenegran lands and a good chunk of Serbia.

Japan will probably get a good chunk of Russian lands, even Vladivostok, but I don't know what British, or French lands they'd get.

Siam probobly gets a really nice bite of Burma, Indochina, and all of Mainland British Malaysia.
 
Isn't the problem with Italy joining the Central Powers that they depended to a large extent on British coal and iron? Also A-H stubbornness over Trento. Depending on when they join, they may have to resolve the issue with Libya and the Dodecanese, which they recently took off the Ottomans, so that might push the Ottomans to the Entente.
 
Thank you everyone for your answers, but can someone make a map that shows a central power victory with it's new members? Feel free to not do it if you don't want to.
 
Spain also is gonna screw France with another front. France will lose this war in a year, no question. They can't handle Germany, Italy, and Spain at once.
Question! What does Britain's old ally Portugal do and how is the Spanish war effort affected by having two fronts? (Three if things happen around Gibraltar.)
 
Isn't the problem with Italy joining the Central Powers that they depended to a large extent on British coal and iron? Also A-H stubbornness over Trento. Depending on when they join, they may have to resolve the issue with Libya and the Dodecanese, which they recently took off the Ottomans, so that might push the Ottomans to the Entente.
In reverse order,
  1. The Ottoman Empire will still be in the Central Powers if the Goeben and Breslau still bombard Sevastopol. Libya and the Dodecanese will be a point of contention, but the Central Powers can offer the Ottomans sweeteners like Cyprus and Kuwait.
  2. I think the Central Powers can offer the Italians more territory (Nice, Savoy, Corsica, Tunisia, Malta and colonies in Africa) than the Entente can (Dalmatia, Istria, the Tyrol, bits of Turkey and German colonies in Africa).
  3. The "deal breaker" if that is the correct expression is the coal and iron. Can the Central Powers supply this? I simply don't know. The best I can come up with is that AFAIK Austria-Hungary had a significant coal mining industry. If they don't have to fight the Italians they don't have to conscript as many miners into their army so they can mine more coal.
Edit: On the coal question. I don't have figures for 1914, but in 1937 Austria, Hungary and Czechoslovakia produced 44 million tons of coal and lignite between them.
 
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Question! What does Britain's old ally Portugal do and how is the Spanish war effort affected by having two fronts? (Three if things happen around Gibraltar.)
IIRC Portugal sent a corps of 2 infantry divisions to France which fought under the command of the BEF. The troops remain in Portugal if Spain joins the Central Powers.

The Spanish also have the problem that the renovation of their navy that was begun in 1908 wasn't complete. Their naval shipyards were run by a British consortium that included Armstrong Whitworth and Vickers (not Vickers-Armstrongs until the 1920s). IOTL many of the ships under construction in 1914 took longer than they should have to complete because for the duration of the war the parent companies weren't able to deliver components the Spanish subsidiary was unable to build itself.

The Balearics and Canaries are going to be very vulnerable, but what happens to them in practice depends upon what resources the Entente powers have to spare for their capture.

However, in addition to drawing French troops away from the Western Front Spain holds both sides of the Strait of Gibraltar. Much is made of the British coast artillery at Gibraltar itself, but I know that the Spanish had powerful batteries on both sides in World War II and I suspect that they had most of them (except the 15" guns at Cadiz) in World War One.

It also depends upon how many extra countries actually come in and when. For example if more countries like Italy join the Central Powers early on a band wagon effect might develop.
 
I love this site! http://www.naval-history.net/xGW-RNOrganisation1914-1918.htm#east

The IJN would eat whatever the British had East Of Suez without a major injection of strength for either the Grand Fleet or the Med. As @Tibi088 implied stripping sufficient strength from the GF to provide a comfortable margin of superiority over the most modern IJN capital ships (for 3 dreadnoughts and one battlecruiser would require 4 BB and 2 BC 24/7 so the RN would have to send 5-6 BB and 3 BC) would close the gap between the German HSF and the GF from 28 BB and 9 BC to 22-23 BB and 6 BC against 16 BB and 5 BC at the time of Jutland.
http://www.naval-history.net/WW1Navy-Japanese_Navy_WW1.htm
Does the IJN of 1914 have the range to threaten the East Indies (British and Dutch)? Do they have the merchant shipping to carry the troops? Due to the massive expansion of the merchant marine during the course of the war they probably have by 1918, but in 1914 it's a different story.

Though it could mean that Australian, Indian and NZ troops are sent to reinforce Hong Kong and Singapore instead of the Middle East and France. A BEF without the 2 Indian infantry and 2 Indian cavalry divisions would be a lot weaker in 1914 and the first half of 1915. There might be no Gallipoli landings or invasion of Mesopotamia. That might free Turkish troops for the attack on the Suez Canal.
 
IIRC Portugal sent a corps of 2 infantry divisions to France which fought under the command of the BEF. The troops remain in Portugal if Spain joins the Central Powers.

The Spanish also have the problem that the renovation of their navy that was begun in 1908 wasn't complete. Their naval shipyards were run by a British consortium that included Armstrong Whitworth and Vickers (not Vickers-Armstrongs until the 1920s). IOTL many of the ships under construction in 1914 took longer than they should have to complete because for the duration of the war the parent companies weren't able to deliver components the Spanish subsidiary was unable to build itself.

The Balearics and Canaries are going to be very vulnerable, but what happens to them in practice depends upon what resources the Entente powers have to spare for their capture.

However, in addition to drawing French troops away from the Western Front Spain holds both sides of the Strait of Gibraltar. Much is made of the British coast artillery at Gibraltar itself, but I know that the Spanish had powerful batteries on both sides in World War II and I suspect that they had most of them (except the 15" guns at Cadiz) in World War One.

It also depends upon how many extra countries actually come in and when. For example if more countries like Italy join the Central Powers early on a band wagon effect might develop.
I'm intrigued by the idea of Italy and Spain coming into the war on the Central Powers side in May 1915 with the intention of carving up southern France and French North Africa between them. That is Italy wants Savoy, Nice, Corsica and Tunisia. Spain wants French Morocco, Roussilon and possibly Algeria.
 
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