New England vs. Maritime provinces

How do the two regions socially, culturally, and politically compare to each other? I've always wondered why New Brunswick, or at least part of the province, didn't end up in the U.S. Yeah I know Halifax was a big fortress and all but just why didn't the Patriot push north a few more miles than in OTL? What made the residents Loyalists?
 
Actually it was that garrison and pretty much nothing else. I don't have a good source on this (other then lots of reading on the subject and basic highschool and university courses on the subject) at the moment. However, a lot of Nova Scotians were pretty sympathetic to the Americans and of course the remaining Acadians did not like the americans. During the War of 1812 trade remained steady between the Maritimes and New England, so feelings remained friendly even after the Loyalist influx following the Revolutionary War.
 
How do the two regions socially, culturally, and politically compare to each other? I've always wondered why New Brunswick, or at least part of the province, didn't end up in the U.S. Yeah I know Halifax was a big fortress and all but just why didn't the Patriot push north a few more miles than in OTL? What made the residents Loyalists?
Well a part of it was that New Brunswick didn't really exist... the whole thing was run out of Halifax, and the boundary where Massachusetts-Bay ended and Nova Scotia began was ill-defined, and there wasn't very much there outside of what was left of the Acadians IIRC...
 
It was mostly the failure to take Halifax. There was a small patriot rebellion IOTL but it just couldn't take the city and so it sort of died away. Halifax was pretty much all there was in that area so without Halifax you had nothing.
 
I wonder why the Patriots did not press for the St. John river to be the boundry to the Atlantic between Nova Scotia/New Brunswick and Maine at the peace table with the Brits after Yorktown.

Then there is this Johnathan Eddy character who wanted Washington and Massachussetts to support him in taking Ft. Cumberland in NS/NB in 1776 after the Brits took off for NYC. He did not get sufficient support from Mass or Washington. He could not take the fort with a mere 200 men and fell back to a defensive position to Maine. What if when he took his defensive position in Maine, he was able to defend the St John river with some aid of some Mass militia or Maine militia.

That would have aleviated any problems of the Aroostook War in the 1830's because the region would be in the US and there would be a clear boundary, a river.
 
Politics and boundaries aside, Atlantic Canada and New England are culturally similar. There are some differences, however - most of New England is more "urban" than Atlantic Canada, with Maine as a transition area, IMO.
 
If Fort Cumberland was taken then the present-day New Brunswick area might very well be American, with Loyalist Nova Scotia at its OTL boundaries. Cumberland held the small entrance to the mainland to the continent from the peninsula, and one of the major settlements in the future New Brunswick, Maugerville, was pro-patriot (indeed, most settlers in the area period were New Englander).

As for peninsular Nova Scotia/Halifax? Much harder. In those days it may as well have been an island, and as North America's premiere naval base since Halifax was built in 1749...ouch. Hard.

Maybe if the Militia Act got more people to be pissed off a riot might be instigated in Halifax proper, or a small area like the one about Lunenburg/Yarmouth, which means those places also go to the patriots (especially if Eddy succeeds in taking Fort Cumberland)? Then Halifax is ala New York n' Philly in being held by the British, but only the city, with the surrounding countryside for the Yankees.

EDIT: BTW, I'm pretty sure in some maps and descriptions of the colonial times, Nova Scotia and PEI were described as being part of New England, or about to be, or such-'New New England' as it was.
 
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Actually it was that garrison and pretty much nothing else. I don't have a good source on this (other then lots of reading on the subject and basic highschool and university courses on the subject) at the moment. However, a lot of Nova Scotians were pretty sympathetic to the Americans and of course the remaining Acadians did not like the americans.

Just to expand on this... Several Nova Scotian settlements actually sent requests to the Continental Congress to liberate them from British tyranny. Continental Congress basically just replied that there was too much on their place already.

During the War of 1812 trade remained steady between the Maritimes and New England, so feelings remained friendly even after the Loyalist influx following the Revolutionary War.

Indeed. Actually, one of the few reasons the Canadian army was able to stay supplied was because American quartermasters would embezzle some supplies and sell them off to the Canadians. Canadians also traded a bit to American soldiers, I believe, although not as much.
 
Maybe if the Militia Act got more people to be pissed off a riot might be instigated in Halifax proper, or a small area like the one about Lunenburg/Yarmouth, which means those places also go to the patriots (especially if Eddy succeeds in taking Fort Cumberland)? Then Halifax is ala New York n' Philly in being held by the British, but only the city, with the surrounding countryside for the Yankees.

And get crushed by the British at the same time - there was no way the British would allow 'rebellion' that close to a major military installation.
 
And get crushed by the British at the same time - there was no way the British would allow 'rebellion' that close to a major military installation.

That's true, but Nova Scotia is still a primarily rural province, filled with New Englanders, and if the people are angry enough, it won't be happy for anyone involved.

Generally, if somehow Nova Scotia can get a representative to the Continental Congress, I'm pretty sure it can be written off that they'll go with the American side. Georgia got reconquered entirely and yet wasn't given up by the Americans in OTL. I am safely assuming if Nova Scotia went patriot the same can happen for them.
 
That's true, but Nova Scotia is still a primarily rural province, filled with New Englanders, and if the people are angry enough, it won't be happy for anyone involved.

Yeah - angry at Boston for putting them in the mess they had to go through.

Generally, if somehow Nova Scotia can get a representative to the Continental Congress, I'm pretty sure it can be written off that they'll go with the American side. Georgia got reconquered entirely and yet wasn't given up by the Americans in OTL. I am safely assuming if Nova Scotia went patriot the same can happen for them.

A very big if, especially with the Loyalist migrations during and after the war. There is absolutely no way that Britain will let Nova Scotia slip from their grasp - including Sunbury County, aka modern-day New Brunswick. Firstly is because of Halifax. Secondly is because of the Annapolis Valley, a former major settlement block of l'Acadie pre-Dérangement. I just don't see Britain giving up both those areas.
 
Yeah - angry at Boston for putting them in the mess they had to go through.

Seriously? You could say that for any of the thirteen to actually rebel, but it happened on anyways. Just because it stayed loyal in OTL doesn't mean that there weren't patriot sympathies at all there.

Especially since the anger over the Militia Act was directed at the governor of Nova Scotia, not at far-off Boston.

A very big if, especially with the Loyalist migrations during and after the war. There is absolutely no way that Britain will let Nova Scotia slip from their grasp - including Sunbury County, aka modern-day New Brunswick. Firstly is because of Halifax. Secondly is because of the Annapolis Valley, a former major settlement block of l'Acadie pre-Dérangement. I just don't see Britain giving up both those areas.

First is to even assume if Nova Scotia is going to stay loyal, which is the point-in which case, Loyalists have to move elsewhere. Secondly, remember what I said earlier-peninsular Nova Scotia is practically an island in those days. Britain could supply by sea. It will not need Sunbury County or a connection to the mainland/Province of Quebec for that.

Honestly, just because you cannot see it does not mean it could not happen at all or was impossible. You can say that for practically the ARW in general.
 
Seriously? You could say that for any of the thirteen to actually rebel, but it happened on anyways. Just because it stayed loyal in OTL doesn't mean that there weren't patriot sympathies at all there.

Especially since the anger over the Militia Act was directed at the governor of Nova Scotia, not at far-off Boston.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing over the amount of rebel support in Nova Scotia - just saying that when the economic costs begin to hit home (which I think it did at some point), the Nova Scotians will get a bit angry at those who started the war. It happened in Newfoundland during this period; I wouldn't be surprised if the same would happen with Nova Scotia, even amongst the rebel sympathizers.


First is to even assume if Nova Scotia is going to stay loyal, which is the point-in which case, Loyalists have to move elsewhere. Secondly, remember what I said earlier-peninsular Nova Scotia is practically an island in those days. Britain could supply by sea. It will not need Sunbury County or a connection to the mainland/Province of Quebec for that.

Again, I understand that - just making a few clarifications over introducing a modern place into a time where the concept of "New Brunswick" would sound like an anachronism, even more so since the original name of the colony was "New Ireland".
 
Oh, I'm not disagreeing over the amount of rebel support in Nova Scotia - just saying that when the economic costs begin to hit home (which I think it did at some point), the Nova Scotians will get a bit angry at those who started the war. It happened in Newfoundland during this period; I wouldn't be surprised if the same would happen with Nova Scotia, even amongst the rebel sympathizers.

Ah, true.

I'm actually going to humbly apologize for my attitude, in retrospect-it always got depressing to see people lambast ARW topics after a while when it was clearly a patriotism battle going on on either side in terms of arguing. So these topics tended to get to me after a bit no matter whom may be arguing, and obviously I did get a bit rude/nationally blinded myself there. I actually believe most ARW-wank is genuinely ludicrous (Jamaica? Really?) :eek:

Again, I do apologize.
Again, I understand that - just making a few clarifications over introducing a modern place into a time where the concept of "New Brunswick" would sound like an anachronism, even more so since the original name of the colony was "New Ireland".[\QUOTE]

Probably the only other point I'll clarify for my end is knowing New Brunswick didn't exist yet, but there was no other convenient term to refer to the area for the terms of the discussion and practically nobody else knows of Sunbury County taking up the entire area at the time or the New Ireland name.
 
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