New "Darkness" Series Map...
- Thread starter BGMan
- Start date
Diamond
Banned
How do you arrive at that conclusion?But then again, since I like Turtledove's works I must be irrelevant too.
Say it with me: "I am not Turtledove, and Turtledove is not me."
How do you arrive at that conclusion?
Say it with me: "I am not Turtledove, and Turtledove is not me."
Freedom!
But in all honesty, I'm doing it to defend my beloved leader, Herr Turtletaub! Freedom!
Flocculencio
Donor
You've posted maps before, haven't you? Quick, make one where pre-modern Japan colonises the East Indies!
You really are a nasty little Yorkshireman
- Writes a strongly worded letter to Tony Blair, promising him a box of Froot Loops if he kills Thande -
Thande
Donor
- Writes a strongly worded letter to Tony Blair, promising him a box of Froot Loops if he kills Thande -
By the time he gets it he probably won't be Prime Minister anymore
Bright day
Small it is, German it is not. Oh it is in Germany. But it is Lusatian...
, sometimes just taking names of the map does not work.
Thande
Donor
Bright day
Small it is, German it is not. Oh it is in Germany. But it is Lusatian...
All right, if you want to split hairs
Broadly speaking as far as I could tell the relations are such: Turtledove country name on the left, WW2 country it represents in the middle, country from which the place names are derived on the right:
Algarve - Germany - Italy
Lagoas - Britain - Portugal
Kuusamo - USA - Finland
Sibiu - Norway/Denmark - Romania
Valmiera - France - Lithuania
Jelgava - Low Countries - Lithuania
Forthweg - Poland - Old English place names from England
Gyongyos - Japan - Hungary
Unkerlant - USSR - Germany
Ice People - North Africa - Israel
All right, if you want to split hairs
I am splitting hairs? Hmm
What I meant that I was rolling on my floor laughing my ass off (ROMFLMAO) for fifteen minutes.
I mean if there was Russian cultural analogue with its capital called Kaliningrad, would it not jerk you?
Susano
Banned
WHAT?Bright day
Small it is, German it is not. Oh it is in Germany. But it is Lusatian...
The Lausitz (Lusatia) IS indisputably German, I dont see your point!
Lusatia is German, but Lusatians ain't. There are towns in Czechia with German names, but if I did such a switcheroo in writing would it not be silly for me to have this "czechish" nation with capital Sternberg?
EDIT: And it is not about Sorbs. If it was Trier I would find it equally silly.
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Thande
Donor
Isn't there a real Kaliningrad in Russia as well that the new name for Koenisberg was taken from, though?
I kind of see where you're coming from, but those distinctions you mention aren't well known in the English-speaking world (or at least, not to me
)
Cottbus is in a region of Lusatia that has been under the control of one German prince or another for well over six-hundred years and Germans have lived in it for over nine-hundred years. It's as German as well, the German-analogues to apple pie and motherhood.
Funny thing, we only acquired it in 1368 and hold it for almost hundred years, so Lower Lusation for 500 and Upper for 400 years...
And as I said I would think same of Trier which started out as a Roman city.
Yes, but you are not putting Chóśebuz into your story are you?Thande said:
Hmm... Actually, from what I understand, Valmiera and Jelgava are "modern" Kaunians, i.e., Latvians, while the Kaunians living in Forthweg and Algarve are the Kaunian diaspora that speak "classical" Kaunian, i.e., Lithuanians. This makes sense, since in OTL, Lithuanian is considered to be the oldest living Indo-European language, while Latvian is a newer variant.All right, if you want to split hairs
Broadly speaking as far as I could tell the relations are such: Turtledove country name on the left, WW2 country it represents in the middle, country from which the place names are derived on the right:
Algarve - Germany - Italy
Lagoas - Britain - Portugal
Kuusamo - USA - Finland
Sibiu - Norway/Denmark - Romania
Valmiera - France - Lithuania
Jelgava - Low Countries - Lithuania
Forthweg - Poland - Old English place names from England
Gyongyos - Japan - Hungary
Unkerlant - USSR - Germany
Ice People - North Africa - Israel
At any rate, I was rather mystified by Jelgava... is it simply meant to be a second France? It's separated from Algarve by a chain of mountains, and was colonized by the Kaunians (Latin/Romans), which suggests Spain, but Spain doesn't border Germany and stayed neutral. (That explains the weird thing I did on the map with Spain for Jelgava.)
Overall, it appears that the Kaunians double as ancient Romans (Jelgava/Valmiera) and as Jews (in Forthweg and Algarve). I suppose Turtledove's comparison would be more exact if during WW2 there was a large Romanian diaspora living in Poland (instead of Jews) that got picked on by the Nazis.
Another aside... Ortah may actually be better represented by Albania than Switzerland.
Susano
Banned
No, you didnt. Bohemia did, maybe, but that was part of the German Kingdom and Holy Roman Empire of German Nation, so AMs argument stands.
And the international name for the city is Cottbus, and this board here is NOT czech-speaking!
Why the hate for Sorbs?
Chóśebuz is not czech name, it is Sorb name... see here
And Milan was such a beautiful German city...
Did I said that we should conquer Lusatia on evil Germans? I was bit unclear- but I think I cleared my position with Kaliningrad example- that it is not current population, but history of the city- and if you take Chóśebuz or Augusta Treviora you take parts of these histories with you.
Thande
Donor
You're probably right, I'm not up to noticing that distinction.
I think the best analogy is the Low Countries, although as you say there's a suggestion of Spain as well. Of course the Allies invaded via Jelgava in Darkness, but then Turtledove made quite a few changes from OTL WW2 (e.g. "Britain" only joins the war AFTER "France" has fallen) so that's not really necessarily an indication of anything.BGMan said:
Also note that the prewar Jelgavan king is supposed to be a nasty dictatorial type.
That seems correct.BGMan said:
Albania?? In that case Ortah would have been a colony of Yanina, which it wasn't.BGMan said:
I don't think there's any really good analogy to Ortah; Turtledove probably just stuck it in because of the constraints of the storyline. I used Switzerland because, like Ortah, it is everyone's idea of a neutral country.