NEW BIRTH OF FREEDOM: The Wilmot Proviso Passes

[TheHedgehog]

But if it rebelled and pledged itself to the Confederates wasn't it reconquered all the same by the Union? As a recent acquisition I'd think there'd have been some attempts at Cuban independence in the time as well with the USA in such chaos.

I’m treating Cuba less as a Confederate state and more like the Arizona territory. The Union didnt take Cuba because they cut it off, but most Cubans opposed the Confederate territorial government, and the Confederates were unable to exert much direct control on the island.
Even if Cubans revolted to restore independence, the Union would just have restored order post-war. Now that I think about it, I might include something like that in a future update.

 

[Ficboy]

I’m treating Cuba less as a Confederate state and more like the Arizona territory. The Union didnt take Cuba because they cut it off, but most Cubans opposed the Confederate territorial government, and the Confederates were unable to exert much direct control on the island.
Even if Cubans revolted to restore independence, the Union would just have restored order post-war. Now that I think about it, I might include something like that in a future update.

You've basically created a realistic version of the Confederate Cuba trope where the United States acquires it prior to the Civil War rather than after it in a Confederate victory scenario. Basically Cuba is the Havana Territory and it is technically under Confederate control but most were opposed to it anyway.

 

[TheHedgehog]

You've basically created a realistic version of the Confederate Cuba trope where the United States acquires it prior to the Civil War rather than after it in a Confederate victory scenario. Basically Cuba is the Havana Territory and it is technically under Confederate control but most were opposed to it anyway.

Thanks! I always strive for realism in this TL.

 

[Ficboy]

Thanks! I always strive for realism in this TL.

Me too.

 

[Ficboy]

I've noticed that East Tennessee is now its own state known as Franklin (a not so subtle nod at the wannabe 14th state during the early years of the United States). OTL's East Tennessee had substantial amounts of Unionists and Confederates owing to the fact that it had some connections to the middle and western regions of the state through railroads and commerce but at the same time plantation slavery was absent thanks to geography and any slaveholders owned only 1 or 2 slaves not to mention the Whigs had a substantial presence there and there were proposals in the early 1840s to create "the State of Frankland" led by Andrew Johnson but it was voted down in the Tennessee General Assembly coupled with clashing interests and sizable opposition. In 1861, delegates from east Tennessee gathered in a convention in an attempt to create a Unionist state but were stopped by the Confederates. Since East Tennessee or Franklin as its known here exists, the Freedomites will have a solid red state that will back them in future elections. The capital of Franklin will be Knoxville and its largest city being Chattanooga with its nickname being "The Great Smoky Mountain State".

To be honest I would change Douglasstown from being TTL's Miami to basically black ethnic neighborhoods throughout America similar to Chinatown and Little Italy. I'd also have an alternate Great Migration and not have Florida and Georgia have black majorities.

 

[TheHedgehog]

I've noticed that East Tennessee is now its own state known as Franklin (a not so subtle nod at the wannabe 14th state during the early years of the United States). OTL's East Tennessee had substantial amounts of Unionists and Confederates owing to the fact that it had some connections to the middle and western regions of the state through railroads and commerce but at the same time plantation slavery was absent thanks to geography and any slaveholders owned only 1 or 2 slaves not to mention the Whigs had a substantial presence there and there were proposals in the early 1840s to create "the State of Frankland" led by Andrew Johnson but it was voted down in the Tennessee General Assembly coupled with clashing interests and sizable opposition. In 1861, delegates from east Tennessee gathered in a convention in an attempt to create a Unionist state but were stopped by the Confederates. Since East Tennessee or Franklin as its known here exists, the Freedomites will have a solid red state that will back them in future elections. The capital of Franklin will be Knoxville and its largest city being Chattanooga with its nickname being "The Great Smoky Mountain State".

To be honest I would change Douglasstown from being TTL's Miami to basically black ethnic neighborhoods throughout America similar to Chinatown and Little Italy. I'd also have an alternate Great Migration and not have Florida and Georgia have black majorities.

You've got the Franklin stuff down exact, although the state will begin to drift in a more conservative direction and will eventually lean towards the Nationals.
Douglasstown was named by Freedmen in Florida, because they wished to honor the abolitionist and civil rights advocate. I'm not going to name all Black neighborhoods "Douglasstowns" because it comes off as a little insensitive to me to use the name of a great man as a term for "ethnic" neighborhoods.

 

[Ficboy]

You've got the Franklin stuff down exact, although the state will begin to drift in a more conservative direction and will eventually lean towards the Nationals.
Douglasstown was named by Freedmen in Florida, because they wished to honor the abolitionist and civil rights advocate. I'm not going to name all Black neighborhoods "Douglasstowns" because it comes off as a little insensitive to me to use the name of a great man as a term for "ethnic" neighborhoods.

Well Frederick Douglass is the most prominent American abolitionist with only Harriet Tubman and others coming anywhere near close to him thus it would make sense to have black neighborhoods named in honor of him since he is a beloved figure, their Moses to be precise. Franklin is going to have strong Freedomite support just look at East Tennessee after the Civil War it's one of the most reliably Republican areas in the nation.

 

[TheHedgehog]

Well Frederick Douglass is the most prominent American abolitionist with only Harriet Tubman and others coming anywhere near close to him thus it would make sense to have black neighborhoods named in honor of him since he is a beloved figure, their Moses to be precise. Franklin is going to have strong Freedomite support just look at East Tennessee after the Civil War it's one of the most reliably Republican areas in the nation.

I'm not going to have "Douglasstown" be the blanket term for a Black neighborhood. Will there be streets and bridges named after him and Harriet Tubman? Absolutely. But I will not make "Douglasstown" a blanket term like that. It's going to remain solely as the name for TTL's Miami.
With Franklin, those counties are so solidly Republican because of their conservatism. TTL, the Freedom Party remains more socially liberal, while the National Party adopts a more populist tone, emerging as the more socially conservative party. Therefore, the Nationals will attract the Appalachian, conservative voters in Franklin.

 

[Ficboy]

I'm not going to have "Douglasstown" be the blanket term for a Black neighborhood. Will there be streets and bridges named after him and Harriet Tubman? Absolutely. But I will not make "Douglasstown" a blanket term like that. It's going to remain solely as the name for TTL's Miami.
With Franklin, those counties are so solidly Republican because of their conservatism. TTL, the Freedom Party remains more socially liberal, while the National Party adopts a more populist tone, emerging as the more socially conservative party. Therefore, the Nationals will attract the Appalachian, conservative voters in Franklin.

Well perhaps something like Little Africa could work in a vein similar to Little Italy and other "Little" ethnic neighborhoods, there is a real life Africatown in Alabama by the way. Plus, I doubt that free blacks could found a major city in Florida much less become the majority there even under the most liberal Republican/Freedomite administration in existence. Since Franklin or OTL's eastern Tennessee is well not part of Tennessee the latter might end up as a bit more liberal since they have cities such as Memphis (black majority) and Nashville (cosmopolitan).

Plus, I think Texas would likely still exist minus the northernmost parts of the state. It wouldn't be called Austin but instead by its original name while the partitioned areas would be referred to as Brazos.

 

[TheHedgehog]

Well perhaps something like Little Africa could work in a vein similar to Little Italy and other "Little" ethnic neighborhoods, there is a real life Africatown in Alabama by the way. Since Franklin or eastern Tennessee is well not part of Tennessee the latter might end up as a bit more liberal or Freedomite/Democratic since they have cities such as Nashville and Memphis.

Little Africa could definitely work, and maybe something like a Little Ethiopia in New York or something.
Tennessee could become more competitive, but I definitely think that, given the political parties and their ideologies, both states will generally lean towards the more socially conservative party, the Nationals.

 

[Ficboy]

Little Africa could definitely work, and maybe something like a Little Ethiopia in New York or something.
Tennessee could become more competitive, but I definitely think that, given the political parties and their ideologies, both states will generally lean towards the more socially conservative party, the Nationals.

Speaking of which, the timeline is mostly satisfactory. I think you should create a PDF version of it for anyone interested in the forum or alternate history to read you know to gain a wider audience. Also is Richmond still the capital of Virginia or the other Virginia?

 

[brickhouse]

Speaking of which, the timeline is mostly satisfactory. I think you should create a PDF version of it for anyone interested in the forum or alternate history to read you know to gain a wider audience. Also is Richmond still the capital of Virginia or the other Virginia?

I believe the Richmond is the capital of Vandalia with is basically our Virginia post civil war

 

[Ficboy]

I believe the Richmond is the capital of Vandalia with is basically our Virginia post civil war

I doubt they would even allow it since it is Virginia's largest and most prominent city. I do think Wheeling could become Vandalia's capital though seeing how the government was primarily based there like it's OTL counterpart West Virginia.

 

[brickhouse]

I doubt they would even allow it since it is Virginia's largest and most prominent city. I do think Wheeling could become Vandalia's capital though seeing how the government was primarily based there like it's OTL counterpart West Virginia.

Uh fuck I mistake Vandalia with Tidewater, sorry. I agree though wheeling would make an excellent capital for them.

 

[TheHedgehog]

Speaking of which, the timeline is mostly satisfactory. I think you should create a PDF version of it for anyone interested in the forum or alternate history to read you know to gain a wider audience. Also is Richmond still the capital of Virginia or the other Virginia?

I’ll probably do that, but I want to write more before I make a PDF. I do appreciate the vote of confidence.

I believe the Richmond is the capital of Vandalia with is basically our Virginia post civil war

Richmond is the capital of Tidewater, one of two Virginian successor states.

I doubt they would even allow it since it is Virginia's largest and most prominent city. I do think Wheeling could become Vandalia's capital though seeing how the government was primarily based there like it's OTL counterpart West Virginia.

Charleston is the capital of Vandalia, though Alexandria, Fairfax, and Arlington are major economic centers, with Alexandria being the largest city.

 

[Ficboy]

I’ll probably do that, but I want to write more before I make a PDF. I do appreciate the vote of confidence.

Richmond is the capital of Tidewater, one of two Virginian successor states.

Charleston is the capital of Vandalia, though Alexandria, Fairfax, and Arlington are major economic centers, with Alexandria being the largest city.

I don't think Virginia would be renamed to something else and given its historical importance I think it would keep its old name. Tennessee after all despite losing the eastern region isn't named something else either and it would apply to Virginia.

 

[TheHedgehog]

Uh fuck I mistake Vandalia with Tidewater, sorry. I agree though wheeling would make an excellent capital for them.

Wheeling is on the complete other side from where Vandalia’s main population cluster lies. Charleston is still in the appalachian reaches of the state, while being about midway between Wheeling and the cities on the Potomac.

 

[TheHedgehog]

I don't think Virginia would be renamed to something else and given its historical importance I think it would keep its old name. Tennessee after all despite losing the eastern region isn't named something else either and it would apply to Virginia.

You’re right that it probably wouldnt be renamed. I’ll change it in the morning.

 

[Ficboy]

You’re right that it probably wouldnt be renamed. I’ll change it in the morning.

Good. I think the same applies to Texas I don't it would have the name Brazos given the importance in the revolution of 1836 and the Mexican-American War. The northernmost regions partitioned from Texas/Brazos could be called Jefferson in honor of one of America's most famous Founding Fathers.

 

[TheHedgehog]

Good. I think the same applies to Texas I don't it would have the name Brazos given the importance in the revolution of 1836 and the Mexican-American War. The northernmost regions partitioned from Texas/Brazos could be called Jefferson in honor of one of America's most famous Founding Fathers.

Brazos is going to stay Brazos. It’s named after a large river in the area and is associated with important events during the Texan Revolution.