RamscoopRaider
Donor
Ouch, no wi-fi at the dealership?
O2 sensors can be rough, had that happen to me in late spring
New Balancing
- Thread starter Jim Smitty
- Start date
O2 sensors can be rough, had that happen to me in late spring
Yeah the dealership I brought my car from it seems hasn't gotten with the 21st century yet. But since my warranty is through them I really didn't have much of a choice.
SwampTiger
Banned
I like the premise, but find the capture of New Orleans by a regiment, supported by a fleet on Lake Pontchartrain, unlikely.
1: The access to the city from the lake is Bayou St. Jean or the New Basin Canal. A small, aging fort is present at the mouth of Bayou St. John. The bayou is shallow and had low banks. Marsh is along the northern banks. Small bridges cross further south. The bayou passes into the northern subdivisions along City Park. You will have urban fighting from here. The first canal wharves are here. The New Basin Canal follows the same north to south path, but is further west. It takes a turn eastward to reach the city, passing through several neighborhoods. It is 12 feet deep.
2: The city population is 190,000 at this time. It contains a large number of veterans. The city is a major US port. The government will take action to defend the city upon learning of the declaration of war. In addition, the city police and militia totaled 3500 men. The White League had 5000 men several months latter for the Battle of Liberty Place. If even half show up for defending the city, a regiment supported by small ships will have difficulty taking the city before federal troops arrive.
3: I would expect the federal government to have troops moving down the Mississippi before the smoke over Fort Pike clears.
1: The access to the city from the lake is Bayou St. Jean or the New Basin Canal. A small, aging fort is present at the mouth of Bayou St. John. The bayou is shallow and had low banks. Marsh is along the northern banks. Small bridges cross further south. The bayou passes into the northern subdivisions along City Park. You will have urban fighting from here. The first canal wharves are here. The New Basin Canal follows the same north to south path, but is further west. It takes a turn eastward to reach the city, passing through several neighborhoods. It is 12 feet deep.
2: The city population is 190,000 at this time. It contains a large number of veterans. The city is a major US port. The government will take action to defend the city upon learning of the declaration of war. In addition, the city police and militia totaled 3500 men. The White League had 5000 men several months latter for the Battle of Liberty Place. If even half show up for defending the city, a regiment supported by small ships will have difficulty taking the city before federal troops arrive.
3: I would expect the federal government to have troops moving down the Mississippi before the smoke over Fort Pike clears.
The Treaty of the Danish West Indies of 1879
Treaty of the Danish West Indies of 1879
Since the end of the slavery in 1848 the Danish West Indies had been a drain on the Danish Treasury. With every passing year it was becoming clear to Copenhagen that the economy of the Danish West Indies wouldn’t improve. In the peace talks to end Second Schleswig War, they were offered up to the victorious Prussians and Austrians as a possible answer to allow them to Duchies of Schleswig, Holstein, and Lauenburg. The problem that the Prussians and Austrians didn’t want them. By the mid-1860s Copenhagen came to the decision to try and sell their colony in the Caribbean for money to improve their economy at home.
For the Danish however there were a problem, a lack of buyers. The British weren’t interested in buying them as their own Caribbean islands weren’t profitable and they didn’t want more unprofitable colonies than they already had. The French under Napoleon III did have some interest in buying the colony from the Danish. They however decided again buying them as Napoleon wanted to improve his relations with the Americans in the aftermath of his adventure in Mexico during their civil war. None of the other European powers were in a position to buy the colony from the Danish for a host of reasons.
This left the United States and they were interested in buying the Danish colony as they viewed it as a way to help give the Freemen a way to make their own way forward in the aftermath of the civil war. The talks quickly became serious and led to a treaty being drawn up in 1867. For a sum of 7.5 million US Dollars the colony would become an American territory. The treaty through ratified by the Danish, but failed to get through the US Senate. The treaty failed there for a number of reasons, notably that President Andrew Johnson was in a major political feud with Congress that would lead to his impeachment and worries about how often the islands were hit by hurricanes. Because of this the treaty lapsed without ever coming to a vote.
Following the treaty lapsing on the floor of the US Senate in 1867 the Danish were really just stuck with their Caribbean colony. With their lack of buyers they gave up trying to actively sell their colony. Then the Spanish American War happened a short time later. Following their victory in the war the United States started to look to secure their new positions within the Caribbean and the Danish West Indies were a short stone throw from their new territory in Puerto Rico. Yet President Grant and his cabinet through briefly shown an interest in buying their colony the Danish were once again let down shortly after talks started when the US withdrew their team. The US had far more pressing matters in 1876-77 in Cuba and the election that happened in 1876.
This time through the US didn’t stay gone long. As the dust settled in Cuba and President Benjamin Bristow deal with the redeemers interest by the United States to buy the Danish Colony return. In 1879 the US once again inquired if the Danish were interest in selling their Caribbean Colony. The talks started soon after this inquiry. Using the 1867 treaty as the basics for their talks things moved very quickly. Within three months an agreement had been reached which was largely a copy of the 1867 Treaty, just the US paying a further half a million dollars than they would had in 1867 for a total of 8 million dollars.
With new treaty in hand things when to getting it through the ratification process. For the Danish this wasn’t a challenge. On the other hand this proved to be a challenge for Bristow Administration to get this treaty out of the Senate. The question of how prone the islands were to hurricanes was one of the main sticking points once again. Further some were pointing out the US had brought Russian Alaska which was far larger than the Danish West Indies for 800,000 dollars less in 1867 which was a stumbling block. Bristow unlike Johnson didn’t have a standing feud with Congress and was well liked by many in the Northern States and South Carolina. When the treaty finally came to a vote on the Senate floor after over three months of debate on the subject it passed by a single vote.
Under the terms of the treaty the United States would take possession of the Danish West Indies six months following ratification. This happened on March 18 1880. In the harbor of Charlotte Amalie on that day was one of the side effects of the Spanish-American War, the USS Maine ACR-1, the first armored cruiser of the United States Navy. In the aftermath of the war with Spain the United States wanted to make what happened at New Orleans would never happen again. As such they started to invest money into upgrading their coast defensives and along with their navy. The Maine was a newly commissioned ship that was on its way to the west coast and it had been decided on the cruise to stop here to formally take over the islands.
Between the US buying the Danish West Indies, them defeating the Spain, and increasing their navy had some in Europe, notably London starting to view the US in a different light.
Since the end of the slavery in 1848 the Danish West Indies had been a drain on the Danish Treasury. With every passing year it was becoming clear to Copenhagen that the economy of the Danish West Indies wouldn’t improve. In the peace talks to end Second Schleswig War, they were offered up to the victorious Prussians and Austrians as a possible answer to allow them to Duchies of Schleswig, Holstein, and Lauenburg. The problem that the Prussians and Austrians didn’t want them. By the mid-1860s Copenhagen came to the decision to try and sell their colony in the Caribbean for money to improve their economy at home.
For the Danish however there were a problem, a lack of buyers. The British weren’t interested in buying them as their own Caribbean islands weren’t profitable and they didn’t want more unprofitable colonies than they already had. The French under Napoleon III did have some interest in buying the colony from the Danish. They however decided again buying them as Napoleon wanted to improve his relations with the Americans in the aftermath of his adventure in Mexico during their civil war. None of the other European powers were in a position to buy the colony from the Danish for a host of reasons.
This left the United States and they were interested in buying the Danish colony as they viewed it as a way to help give the Freemen a way to make their own way forward in the aftermath of the civil war. The talks quickly became serious and led to a treaty being drawn up in 1867. For a sum of 7.5 million US Dollars the colony would become an American territory. The treaty through ratified by the Danish, but failed to get through the US Senate. The treaty failed there for a number of reasons, notably that President Andrew Johnson was in a major political feud with Congress that would lead to his impeachment and worries about how often the islands were hit by hurricanes. Because of this the treaty lapsed without ever coming to a vote.
Following the treaty lapsing on the floor of the US Senate in 1867 the Danish were really just stuck with their Caribbean colony. With their lack of buyers they gave up trying to actively sell their colony. Then the Spanish American War happened a short time later. Following their victory in the war the United States started to look to secure their new positions within the Caribbean and the Danish West Indies were a short stone throw from their new territory in Puerto Rico. Yet President Grant and his cabinet through briefly shown an interest in buying their colony the Danish were once again let down shortly after talks started when the US withdrew their team. The US had far more pressing matters in 1876-77 in Cuba and the election that happened in 1876.
This time through the US didn’t stay gone long. As the dust settled in Cuba and President Benjamin Bristow deal with the redeemers interest by the United States to buy the Danish Colony return. In 1879 the US once again inquired if the Danish were interest in selling their Caribbean Colony. The talks started soon after this inquiry. Using the 1867 treaty as the basics for their talks things moved very quickly. Within three months an agreement had been reached which was largely a copy of the 1867 Treaty, just the US paying a further half a million dollars than they would had in 1867 for a total of 8 million dollars.
With new treaty in hand things when to getting it through the ratification process. For the Danish this wasn’t a challenge. On the other hand this proved to be a challenge for Bristow Administration to get this treaty out of the Senate. The question of how prone the islands were to hurricanes was one of the main sticking points once again. Further some were pointing out the US had brought Russian Alaska which was far larger than the Danish West Indies for 800,000 dollars less in 1867 which was a stumbling block. Bristow unlike Johnson didn’t have a standing feud with Congress and was well liked by many in the Northern States and South Carolina. When the treaty finally came to a vote on the Senate floor after over three months of debate on the subject it passed by a single vote.
Under the terms of the treaty the United States would take possession of the Danish West Indies six months following ratification. This happened on March 18 1880. In the harbor of Charlotte Amalie on that day was one of the side effects of the Spanish-American War, the USS Maine ACR-1, the first armored cruiser of the United States Navy. In the aftermath of the war with Spain the United States wanted to make what happened at New Orleans would never happen again. As such they started to invest money into upgrading their coast defensives and along with their navy. The Maine was a newly commissioned ship that was on its way to the west coast and it had been decided on the cruise to stop here to formally take over the islands.
Between the US buying the Danish West Indies, them defeating the Spain, and increasing their navy had some in Europe, notably London starting to view the US in a different light.
The Intro to the Island War of 1894-95
The Island War of 1894-95
The origins of the Island War don’t lie in Venezuela as they would appear on the surface of things. True the shooting did start in Venezuela but to understand the origins of the Island War one has to understand the era both the United States and Germany were in at the tail end of 19th century. It was the age of New Imperialism and empire building. Both the United States of America and the German Empire were late arrivals to this game. The United States didn’t enter the game till its victory over the Spanish in the First Spanish American War of 1873-75. Germany wasn’t even united as a single nation till the tail end of the Franco-Prussian War. Germany was further held back in its effort to build a colonial empire by the renowned Chancellor Otto von Bismarck who viewed colonies as a resource sink.
Both nations were late to the game and by this point in time the map was being filled in with color as the remaining areas that could be colonize were being gobble up quickly by other nations. This limited chances for growth without having a clash of arms with a peer power. Germany was focused on building up its colonial empire in both Africa and the Pacific. For the US they focused solely on the Pacific. The was an outgrowth of the idea of manifest destiny. The United States had pushed all away to the Pacific Coast of North America and with the victory over Spain gave the US a foothold in the Pacific and they were looking to expand it.
Its worth noting that the way both Germany and the United States viewed their efforts. The Germans had the more standard European view on colonial empires. They were for the economic well being and growth of the motherland, or in Germany’s case the Fatherland. This was a civilizing mission it but the colonies were to give economic benefit to the Fatherland first. Even if it rarely did. As to the United States a nation built from 13 former colonies, they had a different view on the subject. They viewed the ideas of colonies as land that in time would become part of their nation as a state, or at the very least an organized territory.
As more of the map filled in the areas left were increasing marginal in their worth. For a host of reasons through these increasing marginal lands which before had been left along were now being fought for by the different great powers. Each had different reasons for wanting these increasing marginal lands but they were fought for. One such of these territories was that the heart of the Island War. This being the Samoan Islands in the Southwest Pacific.
Both the United States of America and the German Empire lay claims to these islands. Further an old hand in the empire game, the British Empire also claimed these islands. For most of the 1880s things held an uneasy truce between all three powers. This was with the understanding that going to war over these islands were simply foolish. The 1889 typhoon however did change the equation. In 1889 all three nations had their navies in Apia Harbor to monitor things.
The natives on the islands were fighting over who their king would be. Both the Germans and Americans it when without saying supported different sizes. To keep things from getting out of control they had naval units at Apia to stop from the other side from directly entering the Samoan Civil War. Yet as signs of the typhoon came neither the German or American commanders refused to leave the harbor like their British counter parts did. Apia was not a harbor where one could ride out a storm. Yet it was pride that was causing both the American and German commanders from withdrawing their ships from Apia Harbor before the typhoon. Because of this both squadrons were wrecked.
In the aftermath of the 1889 typhoon the United States Navy sent another small squadron to Apia to maintain the uneasy truce between Washington and Berlin on these islands. Ever since the end of the Spanish American War the been engage in a slow but steady build up of its naval force. One of the hard lessons of that war for the United States was it needed a navy that was modern to defend itself as no one wanted a repeat of New Orleans on their hands. The fact that Germany could not do this for a few months enraged newly crown Kaiser Wilhelm II who had very different views of a colonial empire than still then Chancellor Bismarck. Yet this wasn’t the spark that let to the war between the two powers.
This did have effects as both nations started to put more money into their naval forces in the after of the 1889 typhoon yet many thought that would be it. Indeed it was. Then the Venezuelan Crisis of 1894 started. Venezuela had trouble with its fiscal policy had had borrowed heavily from Germany and 1894 those loans were due. At the same time they had a growing dispute with the British over Esequiba. Gold had been found in the region and the British wanted to control those gold fields. At this time those in London they saw a way to kill two birds with one stone.
For those in London they had been since the early 1880s had tried to force the United States to choose a side in the international world. The United States had been refusing to do so as they were holding to George Washington’s idea of the dangers of foreign alliances. This was the time of Pax Britannica and London wanted to know where everyone stood so incase they stepped out of line they could be forced back in line. Prior to 1875 and 1879 the United States had not been a player in international affairs which had been acceptable to London. Yet following those event London viewed the US as an international affair and it had to do what all other great powers did, pick a side so London could play them when needed.
With the US refusing they decided to use the Venezuelan Crisis to teach the United States that they had to play ball or there would be consequences. They decided to use the Germans for this instead of acting themselves. With the Venezuelans being in default to German banks the British whispered in Germany’s ear they could go into Venezuela to collect the money due them with their support so long as they supported their border between Venezuela and British Guiana. For Wilhelm the Second he was all to ready for a military adventure and he sent a fleet with an expeditionary force to collect the money due to German banks and force the British terms on Venezuela on the border. Rumors quickly started to spread that he was seeking more than that through.
The German expeditionary force landed in Venezuela on August 17 1894 in Venezuela. President McKinley had no want for a war with Germany. Yet the press was running wild that the Germans were going to force the Venezuelans to surrender the island of Margarita Island. This was clearly, if true, Germany breaking the Monroe Doctrine. This was unacceptable to McKinley and the American people. On August 31, President McKinley via his ambassador in Berlin handed the Germans a note that was all but an ultimatum. In this note McKinley asked for the Germans to withdraw their forces and not to demand any territory from the Venezuelans. Germany’s answer however was nothing short of telling McKinley to piss off.
With Germany’s answer war had moved from a question of if but to when.
The origins of the Island War don’t lie in Venezuela as they would appear on the surface of things. True the shooting did start in Venezuela but to understand the origins of the Island War one has to understand the era both the United States and Germany were in at the tail end of 19th century. It was the age of New Imperialism and empire building. Both the United States of America and the German Empire were late arrivals to this game. The United States didn’t enter the game till its victory over the Spanish in the First Spanish American War of 1873-75. Germany wasn’t even united as a single nation till the tail end of the Franco-Prussian War. Germany was further held back in its effort to build a colonial empire by the renowned Chancellor Otto von Bismarck who viewed colonies as a resource sink.
Both nations were late to the game and by this point in time the map was being filled in with color as the remaining areas that could be colonize were being gobble up quickly by other nations. This limited chances for growth without having a clash of arms with a peer power. Germany was focused on building up its colonial empire in both Africa and the Pacific. For the US they focused solely on the Pacific. The was an outgrowth of the idea of manifest destiny. The United States had pushed all away to the Pacific Coast of North America and with the victory over Spain gave the US a foothold in the Pacific and they were looking to expand it.
Its worth noting that the way both Germany and the United States viewed their efforts. The Germans had the more standard European view on colonial empires. They were for the economic well being and growth of the motherland, or in Germany’s case the Fatherland. This was a civilizing mission it but the colonies were to give economic benefit to the Fatherland first. Even if it rarely did. As to the United States a nation built from 13 former colonies, they had a different view on the subject. They viewed the ideas of colonies as land that in time would become part of their nation as a state, or at the very least an organized territory.
As more of the map filled in the areas left were increasing marginal in their worth. For a host of reasons through these increasing marginal lands which before had been left along were now being fought for by the different great powers. Each had different reasons for wanting these increasing marginal lands but they were fought for. One such of these territories was that the heart of the Island War. This being the Samoan Islands in the Southwest Pacific.
Both the United States of America and the German Empire lay claims to these islands. Further an old hand in the empire game, the British Empire also claimed these islands. For most of the 1880s things held an uneasy truce between all three powers. This was with the understanding that going to war over these islands were simply foolish. The 1889 typhoon however did change the equation. In 1889 all three nations had their navies in Apia Harbor to monitor things.
The natives on the islands were fighting over who their king would be. Both the Germans and Americans it when without saying supported different sizes. To keep things from getting out of control they had naval units at Apia to stop from the other side from directly entering the Samoan Civil War. Yet as signs of the typhoon came neither the German or American commanders refused to leave the harbor like their British counter parts did. Apia was not a harbor where one could ride out a storm. Yet it was pride that was causing both the American and German commanders from withdrawing their ships from Apia Harbor before the typhoon. Because of this both squadrons were wrecked.
In the aftermath of the 1889 typhoon the United States Navy sent another small squadron to Apia to maintain the uneasy truce between Washington and Berlin on these islands. Ever since the end of the Spanish American War the been engage in a slow but steady build up of its naval force. One of the hard lessons of that war for the United States was it needed a navy that was modern to defend itself as no one wanted a repeat of New Orleans on their hands. The fact that Germany could not do this for a few months enraged newly crown Kaiser Wilhelm II who had very different views of a colonial empire than still then Chancellor Bismarck. Yet this wasn’t the spark that let to the war between the two powers.
This did have effects as both nations started to put more money into their naval forces in the after of the 1889 typhoon yet many thought that would be it. Indeed it was. Then the Venezuelan Crisis of 1894 started. Venezuela had trouble with its fiscal policy had had borrowed heavily from Germany and 1894 those loans were due. At the same time they had a growing dispute with the British over Esequiba. Gold had been found in the region and the British wanted to control those gold fields. At this time those in London they saw a way to kill two birds with one stone.
For those in London they had been since the early 1880s had tried to force the United States to choose a side in the international world. The United States had been refusing to do so as they were holding to George Washington’s idea of the dangers of foreign alliances. This was the time of Pax Britannica and London wanted to know where everyone stood so incase they stepped out of line they could be forced back in line. Prior to 1875 and 1879 the United States had not been a player in international affairs which had been acceptable to London. Yet following those event London viewed the US as an international affair and it had to do what all other great powers did, pick a side so London could play them when needed.
With the US refusing they decided to use the Venezuelan Crisis to teach the United States that they had to play ball or there would be consequences. They decided to use the Germans for this instead of acting themselves. With the Venezuelans being in default to German banks the British whispered in Germany’s ear they could go into Venezuela to collect the money due them with their support so long as they supported their border between Venezuela and British Guiana. For Wilhelm the Second he was all to ready for a military adventure and he sent a fleet with an expeditionary force to collect the money due to German banks and force the British terms on Venezuela on the border. Rumors quickly started to spread that he was seeking more than that through.
The German expeditionary force landed in Venezuela on August 17 1894 in Venezuela. President McKinley had no want for a war with Germany. Yet the press was running wild that the Germans were going to force the Venezuelans to surrender the island of Margarita Island. This was clearly, if true, Germany breaking the Monroe Doctrine. This was unacceptable to McKinley and the American people. On August 31, President McKinley via his ambassador in Berlin handed the Germans a note that was all but an ultimatum. In this note McKinley asked for the Germans to withdraw their forces and not to demand any territory from the Venezuelans. Germany’s answer however was nothing short of telling McKinley to piss off.
With Germany’s answer war had moved from a question of if but to when.
Also this might the last update for a while. I have to build up the Order of Battle for both nations. Making matters worse I have Jury Duty next week so its going to eat into my free time since I'm being called to jury duty on one of my normal days off. Which is so wonderful because I'm not even going to get paid for it. FML.
1894 I'm not so sure probably even. America has the shorter supply train though. Germany is looking at the same senario Russia faced in 1905
Hmmm, kinda of curious how this goes. Germany is probably in for a rough time as the German Navy circa 1890 does not strike me as being that effective at long distance logistics. I do know there is a book where a German Admiral talks about shipping troops to the Americas, I'll have to dig it up as it struck me as he was underestimating the difficulties of such an operation.
Also, a little surprised at the actions of the British Empire. About 1890 in OTL, they had adopted a policy of not necessarily Pro-American attitudes, but they were leaning towards the Americans on the grounds that they had enough on their plate without making the USA hostile. This act could very well boomerang on the British Empire.
Also, a little surprised at the actions of the British Empire. About 1890 in OTL, they had adopted a policy of not necessarily Pro-American attitudes, but they were leaning towards the Americans on the grounds that they had enough on their plate without making the USA hostile. This act could very well boomerang on the British Empire.
United States of America 1894
United States 1894
President: William McKinley
Population: 64,712,193 (1890 Census)
Status: Great Power
Alliance: Unaligned
Army
Active Duty Personal: 38,500 Men
Weapons (Note, Reservist Weapons or Weapons being phased out of service Aren’t Shown)
M1891 Rifle
Weight: 8 lbs 7 oz
Barrel Length: 30 inch
Cartridge: 30-40 Rimmed
Action: Bolt Action
Rate of Fire: 20 to 30 RPM (Depending on Soldier Training)
Muzzle Velocity: 2,000 f/s
Effective Range: 3,000 f
Feed System: 5 round rotary system
M1890 Revolver
Weight: 2 lbs 3 oz
Barrel Length: 6 inch
Cartridge: .41 Long Colt
Action: Double Action
Muzzle Velocity: 870 f/s
Feed System: 6 round cylinder, single shot
M1893 Browning Machine Gun
Weight: 35.9 lbs
Barrel Length: 28 Inch
Cartridge: 30-40 Rimmed
Action: Gas-Operated
Rate of Fire: 450 RPM
Feed System: 250 round belts
M1874 Mountain Gun
Type: Mountain Gun
Weight: 336 lbs
Caliber: 1.65 Inch
Effective Firing Range: 3,500 yards
Maximum Firing Range: 4,000 yards
Muzzle Velocity: 1,300 f/s
M1885 Field Gun
Type: Field Gun
Weight: 2,130 lbs
Caliber: 3.2 Inch L/26
Breech: Interrupted Screw
Effective Firing Range: 5,500 yards
Maximum Firing Range: 6,500 yards
Muzzle Velocity: 1,700 f/s
Marine Corp
Active Duty Personal: 5,500 Men
Weapons (Note, Reservist Weapons or Weapons being phased out of service Aren’t Shown)
M1893 Navy
Weight: 8.32 lbs
Barrel Length: 28 inches
Cartridge: 6mm Navy, Semi-Rimmed
Action: Straight Pull Bolt
Muzzle Velocity: 2,660 f/s
Effective Range: 600 Yards
Feed System: 5 round en bloc clip
M1889 Navy
Weight: 2.4 lbs
Barrel Length: 6 inches
Cartridge: .38 Long Colt
Action: Double Action
Muzzle Velocity: 770 f/s
Feed System: 6 round cylinder, single shot
M1893 Browning Machine Gun
Weight: 35.1 lbs
Barrel Length: 28 Inch
Cartridge: 6mm Navy, Semi-Rimmed
Action: Gas-Operated
Rate of Fire: 500 RPM
Feed System: 200 round belts
Navy
Commissioned/Pre-Commission Work Ups Or Being Built/Order
Battleships: 1/1/2
Coastal Defense Ships/Monitors: 16/4/4
Armored Cruisers: 5/1/2
Protected Cruisers: 10/3/2
Unprotected Cruisers: 8/2/2
Torpedo Boat Destroyers: 1/1/0
Battleships
Iowa Class First Class Battleships (High Freeboard)
Displacement: 12,576 tons
Propulsion: Vertical Triple Expansion Engines, 2 Screws
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 18 knots
Armament: 4 x 12/35s in Twin Turrets, 8 x 8/35s in Twin Turrets(Wing Turrets), 6 x 4/40s in Casemates, 24 x 6 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 1 pdr guns in deck mounts
Armor: Harvey Armor, Belt: up to 14 inches, Barbettes: up to 12 inches, Main Turrets: up to 16 inches, Secondary Turrets: up to 7 inches, Conning Tower: up to 12 inches, Deck: up to 2.5 inches
USS Iowa, BB-5
Mississippi, BB-6, Fitting Out, Nearing Pre-Commission Work Up phase
New York Class First Class Battleships
Displacement: 14,345 tons
Propulsion: Vertical Triple Expansion Engines, 2 Screws
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 18 knots
Armament: 4 x 13/35s in Twin Turrets, 8 x 8/35s in Twin Turrets(Wing Turrets), 6 x 4/40s in Casemates, 24 x 6 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 1 pdr guns in deck mounts
Armor: Harvey Armor, Belt: up to 16 inches, Barbettes: up to 13 inches, Main Turrets: up to 18 inches, Secondary Turrets: up to 8 inches, Conning Tower: up to 12 inches, Deck: up to 3 inches
New York, BB-11, Ordered
Minnesota, BB-12, Ordered
Coastal Defense Ships/Monitors
General Note: During the Spanish American War the USN tried to get a lot of old unfinished monitors back in service only to find the hulls were simply too far gone. They all got scrapped post war with those funds going into the new navy as it became known.
Kalamazoo Class Monitors
Displacement: 4,309 tons
Propulsion: Compound Engines, 1 Shaft
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 12 knots
Armament: 2 x XX Inch Dahlgren Guns in a Twin Turret
Armor: Iron Plate, Belt: up to 6 inches, Turret: up to 16 inches, Pilot House: up to 14 inches
USS Kalamazoo, BM-1
USS Passaconaway, BM-2
USS Quinsigamond, BM-3
USS Shackamaxon, BM-4
Puritan Class Monitors
Displacement: 3,957 tons
Propulsion: Compound Engines, 1 Shaft
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 12.5 knots
Armament: 2 x Breech Loading 12 Inch Guns in Twin Turrets
Armor: Steel Plate, Belt: up to 7 inches, Turret: up to 18 inches, Pilot House: up to 16 inches
USS Puritan, BM-5
USS Amphitrite, BM-6
USS Monadnock, BM-7
USS Miantonomoh, BM-8
Terror Class Monitors
Displacement: 4,908 tons
Propulsion: Compound, 1 Shaft
Fuel: Coal
Armament: 4 x 10/30s in Twins, 4 x 6 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 3 pdr guns in deck mounts
Armor: Compound Armor, Belt: up to 8 Inches, Deck: up to 2 inches, Turrets: up to 12 inches, Conning Tower: up to 10 inches
USS Terror, BM-9
USS Dictator, BM-10
USS Protector, BM-11
USS Shield, BM-12
Indiana Class Second Class Battleship (Coastal Defense Ship for everyone but the US, low freeboard)
Displacement: 10,817 tons
Propulsion: Vertical Triple Expansion Engines, 2 Screws
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 18 knots
Armament: 4 x 12/35s in Twin Turrets, 8 x 8/35s in Twin Turrets(Wing Turrets), 6 x 6/40s in Casemates 24 x 6 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 1 pdr guns in deck mounts
Armor: Harvey Armor, Belt: up to 14 inches, Barbettes: up to 12 inches, Main Turrets: up to 16 inches, Secondary Turrets: up to 7 inches, Conning Tower: up to 12 inches, Deck: up to 2.5 inches
USS Indiana, BB-1
USS Oregon, BB-2
USS Massachusetts, BB-3
USS Georgia, BB-4
Ohio Class Second Class Battleships
Displacement: 12,456 tons
Propulsion: Vertical Triple Expansion Engines, 2 Screws
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 18 knots
Armament: 4 x 13/35s in Twin Turrets, 8 x 8/35s in Twin Turrets(Wing Turrets), 6 x 4/40s in Casemates, 24 x 6 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 1 pdr guns in deck mounts
Armor: Harvey Armor, Belt: up to 16 inches, Barbettes: up to 13 inches, Main Turrets: up to 18 inches, Secondary Turrets: up to 8 inches, Conning Tower: up to 12 inches, Deck: up to 3 inches
Ohio, BB-7, Under Construction
New Jersey, BB-8, Under Construction
California, BB-9, Under Construction
Louisiana, BB-10, Under Construction
Kentucky Class Second Class Battleship
Displacement: 12,901 tons
Propulsion: Vertical Triple Expansion Engines, 2 Screws
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 18 knots
Armament: 4 x 12/40s in Twin Turrets, 4 x 8/40s in Twin Turrets(Mounted on Main Turrets), 10 x 4/40s in Casemates, 24 x 6 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 1 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 18 inch torpedo tubes
Armor: Harvey Armor, Belt: up to 16 inches, Barbettes: up to 14 inches, Main Turrets: up to 18 inches, Secondary Turrets: up to 6 inches, Conning Tower: up to 12 inches, Deck: up to 3 inches
Kentucky, BB-13, Ordered
Unnamed, BB-14, Ordered
Unnamed, BB-15, Ordered
Unnamed, BB-16, Ordered
President: William McKinley
Population: 64,712,193 (1890 Census)
Status: Great Power
Alliance: Unaligned
Army
Active Duty Personal: 38,500 Men
Weapons (Note, Reservist Weapons or Weapons being phased out of service Aren’t Shown)
M1891 Rifle
Weight: 8 lbs 7 oz
Barrel Length: 30 inch
Cartridge: 30-40 Rimmed
Action: Bolt Action
Rate of Fire: 20 to 30 RPM (Depending on Soldier Training)
Muzzle Velocity: 2,000 f/s
Effective Range: 3,000 f
Feed System: 5 round rotary system
M1890 Revolver
Weight: 2 lbs 3 oz
Barrel Length: 6 inch
Cartridge: .41 Long Colt
Action: Double Action
Muzzle Velocity: 870 f/s
Feed System: 6 round cylinder, single shot
M1893 Browning Machine Gun
Weight: 35.9 lbs
Barrel Length: 28 Inch
Cartridge: 30-40 Rimmed
Action: Gas-Operated
Rate of Fire: 450 RPM
Feed System: 250 round belts
M1874 Mountain Gun
Type: Mountain Gun
Weight: 336 lbs
Caliber: 1.65 Inch
Effective Firing Range: 3,500 yards
Maximum Firing Range: 4,000 yards
Muzzle Velocity: 1,300 f/s
M1885 Field Gun
Type: Field Gun
Weight: 2,130 lbs
Caliber: 3.2 Inch L/26
Breech: Interrupted Screw
Effective Firing Range: 5,500 yards
Maximum Firing Range: 6,500 yards
Muzzle Velocity: 1,700 f/s
Marine Corp
Active Duty Personal: 5,500 Men
Weapons (Note, Reservist Weapons or Weapons being phased out of service Aren’t Shown)
M1893 Navy
Weight: 8.32 lbs
Barrel Length: 28 inches
Cartridge: 6mm Navy, Semi-Rimmed
Action: Straight Pull Bolt
Muzzle Velocity: 2,660 f/s
Effective Range: 600 Yards
Feed System: 5 round en bloc clip
M1889 Navy
Weight: 2.4 lbs
Barrel Length: 6 inches
Cartridge: .38 Long Colt
Action: Double Action
Muzzle Velocity: 770 f/s
Feed System: 6 round cylinder, single shot
M1893 Browning Machine Gun
Weight: 35.1 lbs
Barrel Length: 28 Inch
Cartridge: 6mm Navy, Semi-Rimmed
Action: Gas-Operated
Rate of Fire: 500 RPM
Feed System: 200 round belts
Navy
Commissioned/Pre-Commission Work Ups Or Being Built/Order
Battleships: 1/1/2
Coastal Defense Ships/Monitors: 16/4/4
Armored Cruisers: 5/1/2
Protected Cruisers: 10/3/2
Unprotected Cruisers: 8/2/2
Torpedo Boat Destroyers: 1/1/0
Battleships
Iowa Class First Class Battleships (High Freeboard)
Displacement: 12,576 tons
Propulsion: Vertical Triple Expansion Engines, 2 Screws
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 18 knots
Armament: 4 x 12/35s in Twin Turrets, 8 x 8/35s in Twin Turrets(Wing Turrets), 6 x 4/40s in Casemates, 24 x 6 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 1 pdr guns in deck mounts
Armor: Harvey Armor, Belt: up to 14 inches, Barbettes: up to 12 inches, Main Turrets: up to 16 inches, Secondary Turrets: up to 7 inches, Conning Tower: up to 12 inches, Deck: up to 2.5 inches
USS Iowa, BB-5
Mississippi, BB-6, Fitting Out, Nearing Pre-Commission Work Up phase
New York Class First Class Battleships
Displacement: 14,345 tons
Propulsion: Vertical Triple Expansion Engines, 2 Screws
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 18 knots
Armament: 4 x 13/35s in Twin Turrets, 8 x 8/35s in Twin Turrets(Wing Turrets), 6 x 4/40s in Casemates, 24 x 6 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 1 pdr guns in deck mounts
Armor: Harvey Armor, Belt: up to 16 inches, Barbettes: up to 13 inches, Main Turrets: up to 18 inches, Secondary Turrets: up to 8 inches, Conning Tower: up to 12 inches, Deck: up to 3 inches
New York, BB-11, Ordered
Minnesota, BB-12, Ordered
Coastal Defense Ships/Monitors
General Note: During the Spanish American War the USN tried to get a lot of old unfinished monitors back in service only to find the hulls were simply too far gone. They all got scrapped post war with those funds going into the new navy as it became known.
Kalamazoo Class Monitors
Displacement: 4,309 tons
Propulsion: Compound Engines, 1 Shaft
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 12 knots
Armament: 2 x XX Inch Dahlgren Guns in a Twin Turret
Armor: Iron Plate, Belt: up to 6 inches, Turret: up to 16 inches, Pilot House: up to 14 inches
USS Kalamazoo, BM-1
USS Passaconaway, BM-2
USS Quinsigamond, BM-3
USS Shackamaxon, BM-4
Puritan Class Monitors
Displacement: 3,957 tons
Propulsion: Compound Engines, 1 Shaft
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 12.5 knots
Armament: 2 x Breech Loading 12 Inch Guns in Twin Turrets
Armor: Steel Plate, Belt: up to 7 inches, Turret: up to 18 inches, Pilot House: up to 16 inches
USS Puritan, BM-5
USS Amphitrite, BM-6
USS Monadnock, BM-7
USS Miantonomoh, BM-8
Terror Class Monitors
Displacement: 4,908 tons
Propulsion: Compound, 1 Shaft
Fuel: Coal
Armament: 4 x 10/30s in Twins, 4 x 6 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 3 pdr guns in deck mounts
Armor: Compound Armor, Belt: up to 8 Inches, Deck: up to 2 inches, Turrets: up to 12 inches, Conning Tower: up to 10 inches
USS Terror, BM-9
USS Dictator, BM-10
USS Protector, BM-11
USS Shield, BM-12
Indiana Class Second Class Battleship (Coastal Defense Ship for everyone but the US, low freeboard)
Displacement: 10,817 tons
Propulsion: Vertical Triple Expansion Engines, 2 Screws
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 18 knots
Armament: 4 x 12/35s in Twin Turrets, 8 x 8/35s in Twin Turrets(Wing Turrets), 6 x 6/40s in Casemates 24 x 6 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 1 pdr guns in deck mounts
Armor: Harvey Armor, Belt: up to 14 inches, Barbettes: up to 12 inches, Main Turrets: up to 16 inches, Secondary Turrets: up to 7 inches, Conning Tower: up to 12 inches, Deck: up to 2.5 inches
USS Indiana, BB-1
USS Oregon, BB-2
USS Massachusetts, BB-3
USS Georgia, BB-4
Ohio Class Second Class Battleships
Displacement: 12,456 tons
Propulsion: Vertical Triple Expansion Engines, 2 Screws
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 18 knots
Armament: 4 x 13/35s in Twin Turrets, 8 x 8/35s in Twin Turrets(Wing Turrets), 6 x 4/40s in Casemates, 24 x 6 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 1 pdr guns in deck mounts
Armor: Harvey Armor, Belt: up to 16 inches, Barbettes: up to 13 inches, Main Turrets: up to 18 inches, Secondary Turrets: up to 8 inches, Conning Tower: up to 12 inches, Deck: up to 3 inches
Ohio, BB-7, Under Construction
New Jersey, BB-8, Under Construction
California, BB-9, Under Construction
Louisiana, BB-10, Under Construction
Kentucky Class Second Class Battleship
Displacement: 12,901 tons
Propulsion: Vertical Triple Expansion Engines, 2 Screws
Fuel: Coal
Speed: 18 knots
Armament: 4 x 12/40s in Twin Turrets, 4 x 8/40s in Twin Turrets(Mounted on Main Turrets), 10 x 4/40s in Casemates, 24 x 6 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 1 pdr guns in deck mounts, 4 x 18 inch torpedo tubes
Armor: Harvey Armor, Belt: up to 16 inches, Barbettes: up to 14 inches, Main Turrets: up to 18 inches, Secondary Turrets: up to 6 inches, Conning Tower: up to 12 inches, Deck: up to 3 inches
Kentucky, BB-13, Ordered
Unnamed, BB-14, Ordered
Unnamed, BB-15, Ordered
Unnamed, BB-16, Ordered
Driftless
Donor
Late to the party as usual.....Are the Ohio's and Kentucky's an earlier arrival of more modern pre-dreads, or something in between the OTL Oregon & Iowa? Also, the increased number of monitors for the 1890's is an interesting development. That would be the result of a conflicted congressional view of funding for naval forces. The idea of not getting caught with our pants down again, but not wanting to project power at distance.
*edit* By this point of the revised history, the USMC (and Army?) have done a few over-the-beach landings? Contested or no?
*edit* By this point of the revised history, the USMC (and Army?) have done a few over-the-beach landings? Contested or no?
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The Ohio and Kentucky Classes have poor seakeeping. They both have low freeboards like the earlier Indiana Class. Great in the littoral, but in the open seas they aren't that good unless the weather is calm. Even then their performance is only run of the mill and not that good. Their basically coastal battleships.
But yeah the reason for the monitors and far more coastal battleships and far fewer ocean going battleships is because they don't want to get caught their pants down again. But slowly they are starting to build a force to project force at distance given they are wanting control of a few colonies in the SW Pacific along with maintaining their current present in the Central Pacific.
Not a whole lot different interms of small arms and machine guns. You didn't name them explicitly but its clear that, as per OTL, the army is using the Kraig and the navy the Lee.
It seems a given that the navy & marines are going to see the brunt of the fighting, so purhaps the Lee will have a good showing. It really was quite ahead of its time, though purhaps to its detriment as the metallurgy wasn't quite there yet to handle the 6mm navy
It seems a given that the navy & marines are going to see the brunt of the fighting, so purhaps the Lee will have a good showing. It really was quite ahead of its time, though purhaps to its detriment as the metallurgy wasn't quite there yet to handle the 6mm navy
Driftless
Donor
Looping back.... The Ohio's are basically improved Indiana's? The Kentucky's are tweaked Kearsarges'? I had missed the double-stacked turret in the specs for the Kentuckys' (Oh, you're a mean one Mr Grinch.....
) It's consistent with Bureau of Ordnance for that era, but the deficiencies of firing, reloading and protection of the double stacked turrets should have become evident sooner. I suppose that's modern hindsight though.RamscoopRaider
Donor
Issue was in part tough limitations on ship tonnage. Kearsarge was required to be smaller than Iowa to have a shallower draft, but had thicker armor, bigger main guns and more and bigger secondary guns, as such something had to give, which ended up being Freeboard and Intermediate guns, carrying only 4 8" as opposed to 8 and having to mount them on top of the 13" guns to allow for 4 guns on broadside. Bureau of Construction and Repair realized the blunder after the Kearsarges, but then getting Line Officers involved had them demand superimposed turrets back for the Virginia class after the Spanish American warLooping back.... The Ohio's are basically improved Indiana's? The Kentucky's are tweaked Kearsarges'? I had missed the double-stacked turret in the specs for the Kentuckys' (Oh, you're a mean one Mr Grinch.....
These *Kearsarges are bigger but have lighter secondary fits and lighter main guns, but are faster which presumably eats up the tonnage so they are stuck with the compromise, though they may have slightly better seakeeping than OTL Kearsarge