Neutral Ottomans (With Ataturk) & Central Powers Italy

[roderickgibsono]

I am toying around with the idea of a Central Powers victory in WW I where Italy joins the Central Powers and the Ottomans barely manage to stay neutral (or maybe join when it is already clear that the CP are going to win) and also have Ataturk in power or close to that. Also I am thinking about switching sides of Romania (CP instead of Entente), Bulgaria (Entente instead of CP) and Greece (like Romania).

 

[ahmedali]

In fact, I do not see Bulgaria joining the Entente, but will continue to join the Central Powers (their unitary lands such as Vardar, Macedonia are with the Serbs)

But the Ottomans saw them as much more likely to join the Entente if Italy joined the Germans (they hated the Russians for a long time and this is true, but the memory of taking Libya is still very close)

And the Ottomans will say to Wilhelm II, "Nothing personal, but we hate the Austrians, the Italians, and the Greeks more."

In order to make Italy join the Germans, the Turkish-Italian war must end with an Ottoman victory, and therefore not the First Balkan War. This means that the Greeks and Bulgarians join the Germans if the Ottomans join the Entente

Without the blockade of the straits, the Russian situation would be greatly improved (unless you replace it with a Swedish blockade of St. Petersburg)

 

[Evil Crusader]

Ataturk in power is tough to do, without a War to break down the veneer of parlamentarism and the hold of the Caliph and the civil authorities.
CP Italy is simpler, but requires some pretty strong commitment from Germany early on or a cause the Italians care more about.

 

[ahmedali]

Ataturk in power is tough to do, without a War to break down the veneer of parlamentarism and the hold of the Caliph and the civil authorities.
CP Italy is simpler, but requires some pretty strong commitment from Germany early on or a cause the Italians care more about.

It is easy to make Ataturk enter Ottoman politics early during the period of the three pashas (he is already famous like Enver thanks to his actions in Libya)

Italy the central force is easy, but it removes the Ottomans as a central force and pushes them to ally with the Entente

 

[Evil Crusader]

Italy the central force is easy, but it removes the Ottomans as a central force and pushes them to ally with the Entente

Hard disagree, it makes it less easy, but not that much. Libya isn't really at the top, quite possibly not even particularly in the middle, of the CUP's priorities when trying to regain lost standing and lands.

 

[ahmedali]

Hard disagree, it makes it less easy, but not that much. Libya isn't really at the top, quite possibly not even particularly in the middle, of the CUP's priorities when trying to regain lost standing and lands.

they Join the Germans to take back Libya in reality in OTL

And that's the problem ( trying to regain lost standing and lands)

Italy was wrested from Libya from the Ottomans only three years ago, a vivid memory at this moment.

If the Ottomans joined the Central Powers after this happened, the legitimacy of the Ottoman Caliphate would go entirely even towards their subjects in their own lands.

(Senussi and the Dervishes will join the entente, Darfur will not respond to the call of jihad, Abbas Hilmi will turn against the Ottomans, and the Arab revolution will have more credibility because the Ottomans have completely lost their credibility)

The difference is that after the Ottomans lost, someone else would accept Ataturk's offer to take over the position of caliph.

(The Senussi who feel betrayed towards the Ottomans will accept the taking of the caliphate and even if he does not do so until it is agreed that the Hashemites will take the caliphate, the caliphate will not go away and pass to someone else)

 

[Evil Crusader]

they Join the Germans to take back Libya in reality in OTL

And that's the problem ( trying to regain lost standing and lands)

Italy was wrested from Libya from the Ottomans only three years ago, a vivid memory at this moment.

If the Ottomans joined the Central Powers after this happened, the legitimacy of the Ottoman Caliphate would go entirely even towards their subjects in their own lands.

(Senussi and the Dervishes will join the entente, Darfur will not respond to the call of jihad, Abbas Hilmi will turn against the Ottomans, and the Arab revolution will have more credibility because the Ottomans have completely lost their credibility)

The difference is that after the Ottomans lost, someone else would accept Ataturk's offer to take over the position of caliph.

(The Senussi who feel betrayed towards the Ottomans will accept the taking of the caliphate and even if he does not do so until it is agreed that the Hashemites will take the caliphate, the caliphate will not go away and pass to someone else)

No, they didn't; they joined six months before Italy because of a war hungry party and two fugitive ships. They also were allied with Bulgaria, another land that took and hold areas with actual Turks in it without the CUP or the Caliphate really losing legitimacy.

 

[ahmedali]

No, they didn't; they joined six months before Italy because of a war hungry party and two fugitive ships. They also were allied with Bulgaria, another land that took and hold areas with actual Turks in it without the CUP or the Caliphate really losing legitimacy.

Because Italy was in entente

Central forces are a completely different matter

And they will lose it if they allied themselves with them after losing Libya