Netherlands accidental invaded by German Empire WW1

Suppose the German army invade the Netherlands. That is to say accidental
German units cross the Dutch border in the province of Limburg in their march to Belgium and France.
The Dutch respond, in line with their armed nuetrality policy, and fire upon the German Units. Germany diplomats respond by giving the Dutch an ultimatum, more or less copy paste of the one the Belgians recieved. The Dutch refiuses and war between the Netherlands and Germany is a fact.

Let asume the, well prepared Dutch field army made a succesfull fighting retreat, as practiced many times, in the process giving the German right flank some head aches and making the Belgian army retreat to the North, to the Nehterlands, instead of the South.
In October the Dutch are behind their rivers and waterlines. This could be the South water line in Brabant and could also be the river Ijssel or the Ducht water line just East of the city Utrecht. Probably the Provice of Zeeland will be still Dutch too.

This part of the West front would most liklely be a side show, how will the West Front will evolve when the whole of Belgium will be occupied?

Any thoughts what kind of weapons, vehicles, vessels could be developed in this innundated front.

And would Churhill come up with his grand stratigy of crossing the Zuyderzee in to Frisland via Groningen to East Frisia and finaly the German Naval base Whilhelms Haven?

Any ideas?


Note:
The Netherlands was one of the first countries who mobilised their army.
The army was devided in a field army and a larger fortification army. The field army main task was to commence a fighting retreat by delaying the enemy, in order to
gain time to prepare the inundations.
The army was for 1914 standards modern. Known short commings was absence of heavy artillery and the low ammunition stok pile.
The field army was wearing field gray uniforms, the older echelons of the fortification army the older dark blue jackets and light blue trousres.
Soldiers were equiped with a relative modern rifles. Field artilery was also up to date for 1914 standards.
As a novum there was a flying group of six Farman airoplanes for scouting and artilery observations.

The Dutch navy was in the home waters more an extension of the army, a brown water navy with river gun boats and coastal defence ships and mine layers. The navy for the high seas was designed to operate in Indonesia. In contrast to the army the navy start to modernise to late.
The Dutch Navy comprises of a several classes of armored cruisers and small battle ships (more coastall defence ships like the Scanidanivians) all build at the turn of the century.When the last of this type ( the Zeven provincien) was commisioned in 1905, debate started to build a proper battleship fleet to deter the threat of the Japanese. A very far developed battle fleet plan evovled after this discussions and a fleet law would pass parlaiment but war prevent this plans executed. The Navy in did had seven submarines of which five where in Dutch waters when war broke out.
 
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As an ally, the Netherlands accepts the deal that the British will transship stuff at no cost but a slight delay, which allows a massive minefield to be placed across the Dover Strait, which combined with regular patrols, means that U-boats have a very much harder time passing the Strait, and thus allied merchant losses in the Atlantic are lower.
 
As an ally, the Netherlands accepts the deal that the British will transship stuff at no cost but a slight delay, which allows a massive minefield to be placed across the Dover Strait, which combined with regular patrols, means that U-boats have a very much harder time passing the Strait, and thus allied merchant losses in the Atlantic are lower.

That means that U-boats wouldnt attack American ships? so the US wouldnt have a reason to get involved in the war
 
As an ally, the Netherlands accepts the deal that the British will transship stuff at no cost but a slight delay, which allows a massive minefield to be placed across the Dover Strait, which combined with regular patrols, means that U-boats have a very much harder time passing the Strait, and thus allied merchant losses in the Atlantic are lower.

Ah yes probably the most overrated weapon against the U-Boats of WW1 the minefield. It took until 1916-17 to finally get a mine that worked first off. Before that you can find tons of stories where the U-Boats scrapped against the mines and they didn't go off. Hell even when they were fixed they didn't actually help as much is stated.
 
That means that U-boats wouldnt attack American ships? so the US wouldnt have a reason to get involved in the war
Oh they would, but it would take longer to get out.

Ah yes probably the most overrated weapon against the U-Boats of WW1 the minefield. It took until 1916-17 to finally get a mine that worked first off. Before that you can find tons of stories where the U-Boats scrapped against the mines and they didn't go off. Hell even when they were fixed they didn't actually help as much is stated.
Yeah, but if the Dutch allow transshipping, the British don't have to bother so much about accidentally sinking neutral vessels, so they lay more mines.
 
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This part of the West front would most liklely be a side show, how will the West Front evolve when the whole of Belgium will be occupied?

Any thoughts what kind of weapons, vehicles, vessels could be developed in this, innundated, part of the front crossed with rievers and an inland sea.

And would Churhill come up with his grand stratigy of crossing the Zuyderzee in to Frisland via Groningen to East Frisia and finaly the German Naval base Whilhelms Haven instead of an Offenssive at Galipoli

Any ideas?
 
And would Churhill come up with his grand stratigy of crossing the Zuiderzee in to Friesland via Groningen to East Frisia and finaly the German Naval base Whilhelms Haven instead of an Offenssive at Galipoli

Any ideas?

the frisian island invasion, the prequel! :D
 
the frisian island invasion, the prequel! :D

It is not that fantastic as it sounds. This was actually a serious idea of Winston Churchill, the only problem in our time was that the Netherlands were neutral and the UK just entered the war because aneutral country was violated. As a second option he came up with the Grand Strategy of the the Dardanelles, which ended in the Gallipoli tragedy.

Any ideas of crafts to fight a war in a swamp with 1914 techniques?
 
Yeah, but if the Dutch allow transshipping, the British don't have to bother so much about accidentally sinking neutral vessels, so they lay more mines.

Which again for the first two-three years of the war were a complete waste of resources. Hell as I said even when they started working they still weren't as big a help as people think.
 
This part of the West front would most liklely be a side show, how will the West Front will evolve when the whole of Belgium will be occupied?

I don't see how this would lead to the whole of Belgium occupied. You are right to say that the Dutch front will be a sideshow and most of the German forces will focus on France. But still some forces will be sent to the Netherlands, meaning that the German army tha attacks France will be less powerful and will probably make less progress (although not significantly less)at that front instead of more. I think it is more likely that more of Belgium is unoccupied, although to be fair, not much more.
 
I don't see how this would lead to the whole of Belgium occupied. You are right to say that the Dutch front will be a sideshow and most of the German forces will focus on France. But still some forces will be sent to the Netherlands, meaning that the German army tha attacks France will be less powerful and will probably make less progress (although not significantly less)at that front instead of more. I think it is more likely that more of Belgium is unoccupied, although to be fair, not much more.

It depents which side the Belgians prefered. They will have phisical contact and a single front with the Dutch, which they did not had with the french at that time.
The Begliians did not recieve any support except some naval forces from the British. The Belgian army retreat to Antwerp. The Dutch army will rettreat to the South water line and to the Brabant heights South of bergen op Zoom. This will link their front and will secure Zeeland and the Scheld river. Since Both small countries will not receive significant help and probably the Germans will bolster their right flank it is likly tha the link between the French and the Belgians will be broken or just given up by thee Belgians fo the will focus to the North, prefering a closed fornt with the Dutch above a nearly not exsisiting contact line with the French.

I do not think the Germans will allocate more troops from the advance on France. It will use more reserve troops to invade and pin the Dutch and Belgians to secure their right flank. For sure there wwill be no troops sent from the west front to the East front.
The advance for the Germans could be a bit more easier since the corridor of their right flank is much wider when crossing Dutch Limburg and Brabant in stead of the small corridor between Maastrich and the fortreses of Liege. Thsi fortresses will lose their significance if German armies can march through Dutch teritory. Although the latter will be not easy since the Dutch detroyed their bridges crossing the river Meuse. Whihc they did even they stayed neutral. In Brabant their were two divisions of the Dutch field army whihc could give a threat to the German flanks. And as said earlier the Dutch field army was up to date. An other fact the Dutch senior officers had battle experiences from the colonial wars in Atjeh wich was not a walk in the park.
 
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Amy teritorial gains after a German defeat? Possible close cooperation beteren Belgium and the Netherlands?
 
Amy teritorial gains after a German defeat? Possible close cooperation beteren Belgium and the Netherlands?
Most obvious is East-Frisia, maybe Cleves. Does anyone remember the areas Belgium "offered" to the Netherlands in exchange for Limburg?

About closer cooperation between the Netherlands and Belgium? I can see some early Benelux, which could lead to closer cooperation between the two (three?) countries, possibly including a close alliance, besides economic and cultural cooperation.
 
Where does the Kaiser go after the war? (Assuming Germany loses.)
Probably whoever else is neutral. Switzerland, Scandinavia... sure, they may not be thrilled to have him, but he has to leave Germany and noone really wants to arrest him (I think).
 

LordKalvert

Banned
If the Germans provoke the Dutch, the game is up. The Dutch army is reasonably good and about the size of the 1st German Army. Its not something to sneeze at.

Further, there are 12,000 British and Belgian troops interned in the Netherlands by the end of September rising to 35,000 by the end of the year. These troops would be safe

Most importantly the Dutch would represent a powerful force in the German rear capable of cutting the lines of communication and ending the war.

Given the above, a considerable German force of at least 10 divisions is going to have to be left behind to mask the Dutch.

This is war winning as the Germans are never going to be able to threaten the French/British flanks and the Germans aren't going to have a gap between the 1st and 2nd army but the Germans are going to see their flank in the air or the middle so diluted that the French can punch through
 
Suppose,

The Germans had just suffficient reserve troops to counter the Dutch and Belgians in order to guard their right wing who continued their advance in Frnace (1st Army).
The Dutch army was reasonable modern in 1914 but as the Belgian army, was not cabable of a prolonged offensive and most likely the Dutch commanders were resistant to an offensive too deep in Belgium and too far from the Dutch water line.
Suppose a combination of errors and luck of all sides, will end in a West front (South) in the North of France in a entrenched front and in the Westftont (North) Netherlands, waterlines just south of the river Meuse and Dutch watrline.
Would the marshy inundated front of the North westfront lead to armed airboats or other vehicles, vessels or weapons.

Attached a kind of German? airboat from the ealry decade of the 20th century

else1_Kopie.jpg
 
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