Nestorian Mongol Khanate of Tondo

[MarshalBraginsky]

There was an idea posted on one of my threads about the possibility of the Philippines going Nestorian. So here are a few scenarios that might happen:

1) Someone mentioned about a Mongol invasion force that was supposed to conquer Java had somehow ended up crashing into Manila Bay (or a name that was used before Manila Bay) While they are there, they unify Luzon and rebuild their fleet while trying to get in touch with their comrades on the Mongol mainland.

2) Another idea would be that the Mongol Yuan Dynasty concentrates the Nestorian Christians at the Chinese coast for economic reasons. When the Ming Dynasty is established, the Nestorian Mongol refugees would come to Luzon island and re-establish their lost power base. This can happen, assuming that the northern Yuan might also fall to the Ming as well.

Finally, the Khanate of either Mayi or Tondo would have a nucleus, formed by Mongol refugees, but they could either last longer and have their religion develop into a similar version of the Ethiopian Orthodox religion, or have their religion intact while the Spaniards conquer the Khanate.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Why would the Yuan specifically concentrate Christian Mongols on the coast? I'm not aware of the differences between them and non-Christian Mongols that would make an economic difference.

I think more realistically you could have:

The Mongols conquer Luzon. As a butterfly, perhaps some Christian Mongol official is posted to coastal China for some reason--it needn't have to do with his religion but as a consequence of administrative shuffling due to the need to administer and garrison Luzon or any other Filipino terrories.

During the fall of the Yuan, said official or one of his descendants arranges for an exodus of Nestorian Mongols and others to Luzon.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Why would the Yuan specifically concentrate Christian Mongols on the coast? I'm not aware of the differences between them and non-Christian Mongols that would make an economic difference.

I think more realistically you could have:

The Mongols conquer Luzon. As a butterfly, perhaps some Christian Mongol official is posted to coastal China for some reason--it needn't have to do with his religion but as a consequence of administrative shuffling due to the need to administer and garrison Luzon or any other Filipino territories.

During the fall of the Yuan, said official or one of his descendants arranges for an exodus of Nestorian Mongols and others to Luzon.

The invasion of Luzon has to be successful. The seaborne invasions of Java and Japan by the Yuan ended up in disaster, so there must be a way for Luzon to be conquered successfully. More realistically, they could also enter Luzon from Java when their ship crashed. I'm not sure what would be more realistic.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how would a Nestorian Mongol Khanate in Luzon would butterfly things, but maybe within a hundred years they might absorb Visayas and another fifty or hundred years later they might absorb Mindanao and Borneo. Assuming that the other Malay kingdoms were on decline.

As for a Christian Mongol official who is stationed on the south China coast could be posted there because he may have talent. I'm not sure who would fit the perfect Christian Mongol in this case. Moreover, how could the Mongols realistically and successfully conquer Java? They would also have to conquer Vietnam to gain access to Palawan and Luzon.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Would the Mongols have to conquer Luzon instead of attacking Java for this to happen?

 

[kasumigenx]

The Mongols did not attack it because it is backwater.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

The Mongols did not attack it because it is backwater.

It didn't become important until the Ming Dynasty.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Scenario:

A small delay in the construction of transport ships in Chinese shipyards forced Kublai Khan to postpone the invasion of Java until autumn, by which time the typhoon season had just began. 100,000 soldiers that would have partaken in the invasion of Java were blown off to two different locations: modern day Palawan and the Ilocano region. Shi-Bi, the Mongol leader, ends up conquering the Ilocanos, a few Igorot tribes and the northern Tagalog tribes. We may not get a Khanate of Tondo, but we could get something like the 'Khanate of Ilokan'

 

[kasumigenx]

Scenario:

A small delay in the construction of transport ships in Chinese shipyards forced Kublai Khan to postpone the invasion of Java until autumn, by which time the typhoon season had just began. 100,000 soldiers that would have partaken in the invasion of Java were blown off to two different locations: modern day Palawan and the Ilocano region. Shi-Bi, the Mongol leader, ends up conquering the Ilocanos, a few Igorot tribes and the northern Tagalog tribes. We may not get a Khanate of Tondo, but we could get something like the 'Khanate of Ilokan'

There were no "Tagalog" tribes in Central Luzon at that time, they were speaking a language related to Kapampangan instead..

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

There were no "Tagalog" tribes in Central Luzon at that time, they were speaking a language related to Kapampangan instead..

And are you sure there were no 'Ilocano' tribes at this time?

 

[kasumigenx]

And are you sure there were no 'Ilocano' tribes at this time?

There are Ilocano tribes only on Northwest Luzon on that time.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

And if the Mongols show up there, they'll be the ones assimilating the Ilocanos.

 

[kasumigenx]

And if the Mongols show up there, they'll be the ones assimilating the Ilocanos.

If the population increased on Luzon the Lowlands people (Cagayan Valley and Central Luzon People) will merge and will slowly overwhelm the Ilocanos and other surrounding people this never happened in OTL because there was no population increase before the Spanish came and the Spanish made a genocide against the Lowlands people, I did that on my TL A Horizon on the South of Orient.

A Reproductive POD needs to be done in this timeline, they need population increase as well.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Yeah, and neither the Mongols nor the Lowlands Malays are more advanced in this scenario, even with the years of experience on the former's part in warfare.

 

[mightfly]

I always wondered was horse combat in play before the arrival of the spanish?

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Since OTL Philippine Islands had some mountains and a lot of jungle based vegetation, horse combat would be impossible. Nevertheless, the Visayans did develop the combat technique called eskrit.

 

[Hetalia]

There was an idea posted on one of my threads about the possibility of the Philippines going Nestorian. So here are a few scenarios that might happen:

1) Someone mentioned about a Mongol invasion force that was supposed to conquer Java had somehow ended up crashing into Manila Bay (or a name that was used before Manila Bay) While they are there, they unify Luzon and rebuild their fleet while trying to get in touch with their comrades on the Mongol mainland.

2) Another idea would be that the Mongol Yuan Dynasty concentrates the Nestorian Christians at the Chinese coast for economic reasons. When the Ming Dynasty is established, the Nestorian Mongol refugees would come to Luzon island and re-establish their lost power base. This can happen, assuming that the northern Yuan might also fall to the Ming as well.

Finally, the Khanate of either Mayi or Tondo would have a nucleus, formed by Mongol refugees, but they could either last longer and have their religion develop into a similar version of the Ethiopian Orthodox religion, or have their religion intact while the Spaniards conquer the Khanate.

Second is more ideal, although, it would be more of a Cebuano Khanate because there were already established Chinese communities there.

 

[kasumigenx]

Since OTL Philippine Islands had some mountains and a lot of jungle based vegetation, horse combat would be impossible. Nevertheless, the Visayans did develop the combat technique called eskrit.

Second is more ideal, although, it would be more of a Cebuano Khanate because there were already established Chinese communities there.

Cebu is controlled by the Chola Dynasty at that time..

What is more likely is making Selurong a Vassal of the Japanese by making Selurong's nobles and rulers more dependent to the Japanese, for me that would have saved Luzon from Bruneian Domination.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Yeah, but the Japanese weren't Nestorian, and they were definitely not under Mongol control.

 

[kasumigenx]

Yeah, but the Japanese weren't Nestorian, and they were definitely not under Mongol control.

My idea is that a scion of the Mongols marry into the Tondo Dynasty who shelters the Nestorians and establish a principality in Luzon and later the rulers of the principality would inherit the Tondo Dynasty's lands and their power in Selurong/Mayi or Luzon once the direct line of succession of Tondo Dynasty passes to the ruler of the Mongol established Principality in Selurong.

 

[MonAngel]

As for a Christian Mongol official who is stationed on the south China coast could be posted there because he may have talent. I'm not sure who would fit the perfect Christian Mongol in this case. Moreover, how could the Mongols realistically and successfully conquer Java? They would also have to conquer Vietnam to gain access to Palawan and Luzon.

Since Nestorian Mongol tribes where one of more progressive tribes I see some talented officials be born. Kublai's MOther was Nestorian so you can assume at least Kublai and his brothers had some sympathy to Nestorian belief.

Mongols did conquer Vietnam even was planning to conquer Angkor.

2) Another idea would be that the Mongol Yuan Dynasty concentrates the Nestorian Christians at the Chinese coast for economic reasons. When the Ming Dynasty is established, the Nestorian Mongol refugees would come to Luzon island and re-establish their lost power base. This can happen, assuming that the northern Yuan might also fall to the Ming as well.

Finally, the Khanate of either Mayi or Tondo would have a nucleus, formed by Mongol refugees, but they could either last longer and have their religion develop into a similar version of the Ethiopian Orthodox religion, or have their religion intact while the Spaniards conquer the Khanate.

Mongols can't live in Luzon, because nomads can't leave in tropic.

Northern Yuan can't be conquered by Ming, because at that time it was impossible. You can win battle against Mongols, even War but can't conquer them.