There will be no negotiated peace as long as the Germans have an advantage, since the Germans would be too proud to be willing to give up anything.
There will be no negotiated peace as long as the Germans have an advantage, since the Germans would be too proud to be willing to give up anything.
Yes, but then Germany don't have the advantage anymore and is more willing to give in to demands, such as return to 1914 borders in the West and the secession of the Colonies.So civil unrest and severe food shortages just give way before the all-conquering might of German pride.![]()
Yes, but then Germany don't have the advantage anymore and is more willing to give in to demands, such as return to 1914 borders in the West and the secession of the Colonies.
A Germany with no food (they came close to this OTL) and riots on the street would not be in an advantageous position in the war anymore. Such a Germany would accept negotiations over the German colonies and perhaps an no annexations in Western Europe principle. But before this they would stubbornly decline negotiations, still believing Ludendorf's and von Hindenburg's pipe dream that a victory is possible.
What would you like me to clarify?The realities on the field are that Germany holds big chunks of France, Belgium and the whole of Luxemburg, and yet has no hold on the high seas and Africa. Sure, the scenario isnt very probable, but it definately isnt inplausible. Of course, if wiking would explain his scenario in a bit more detail, we could discuss this on safer ground.
What would you like me to clarify?
In the West the Germans avoid reparations for France and Britain, but have to pay Belgium for damages
They also annex Luxembourg and get trade concessions with Belgium.
Customs union with Belgium, Luxembourg is a new Reichsland like Alsace-Lorraine
I know, but I don't think the Germans can trust the Luxembourgers to govern themselves, seeing as they are a conquered territory that did not want to be part of Germany. At least that is my impression, so if anyone has any other information about German plans for Luxembourg, please correct me.Luxembourgh is a Grand Duchy unlike AL which was a republic so there is no need for a new Reichsland.![]()
Germany gets back Togo, Kamerun, and German East Africa, but has to peg her navy to the RN 2:3 with 1:1 in subs.
In the West the Germans avoid reparations for France and Britain, but have to pay Belgium for damages
They also annex Luxembourg and get trade concessions with Belgium.
Customs union with Belgium, Luxembourg is a new Reichsland like Alsace-Lorraine
Italy loses minor territories to make the Austrian border more defensible.
A couple mountains here and there
Rump Serbia is united with Montenegro under the pro-Austrian Obrenovic's, who were deposed in 1903.
OK.AH doesn't ask for anything, just food from Russia.
From the Ukraine food with her POWs are the war reparations, not border changes
The Bulgarians get to keep its conquests.
Romania gets to keep Bessarbia.
The Ottomans lose everything based on the December 1917 front line with the Brits. They try to take the Caucasus to compensate in 1918.
In a negotiated peace, outright annexations of the French mainland would be like a big "fuck you" to the Entente. I would think a demilitarised region and a Saar-like solution to Briey-Longwy would be (somewhat) better.There are minor border adjustments on the Franco-German border in Germany's favor. Front slope of the Vosges and Briey-Longwy
East Africa is probably lost, since it is essential for the Cape-to-Cairo railway. You could partition it if you could find an agreeable solution for both the Germans and the British.Germany loses her colonies and has some limits to her navy.
In retrospect Germany gets back Togo, Kamerun, and German East Africa, but has to peg her navy to the RN 2:3 with 1:1 in subs. Maybe picks up neighboring territories around Togo and Kamerun?
It would be interesting to see how the Italians pay this.Italy also pays minor reparations for the war.
1/3 of AH's war cost against Italy or some such
So how far into Russia do these states go? Similarly to OTL?In the East the Germans get Poland (still in negotiations with Austria-Hungary over the role each will play in that country)and the Baltic area.
Political influence over the areas, though Germany wants to Germanize and annex the Baltics. AH and Germany as still trying to figure out how to handle Poland, as AH wants to turn it into a third crown (Kaiser Karl does at any rate, there are problems with that), but Falkenhayn doesn't allow the Kingdom of Poland to be created ITTL, so that issue isn't on the table.
I know, but I don't think the Germans can trust the Luxembourgers to govern themselves, seeing as they are a conquered territory that did not want to be part of Germany. At least that is my impression, so if anyone has any other information about German plans for Luxembourg, please correct me.
Though I can see parts of Venetia being traded away for no reparations...
We didnt forget about it. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that South Africa would probably say no to any return of SW Afrika to the Germans.What about SW Africa? (Everyone forgets SW Africa...)
The Pacific territories are definately gone, but I cant really see Congo proper going to the Germans. The territories taken from Belgium in Europe would probably only consist of a token city or two, and the rest of the demands arent that unreasonable. If the Germans actually do end up with Congo, I suspect some kind of partition would happen as well.Though I can see Germany getting most of French Equatorial Africa in exchange for leaving France. They COULD get the Congo in exchange for no pieces of Belgium (including no economic union or whatever to make the Brits happy) and giving the British East Africa. AND maybe paying Belgium for damages for invading them in the war. The Pacific territories might be lost.
More likely possibly is that the east is conceded as lost but Germany in turn gives up it's annexations in the west, accepts the loss of it's colonies and almost certainly it required to make some naval commitment to reduce tension with Britain.
Hmm, I could see Germany getting Luxemburg, but nothing else. France want to make it look they "kind of still won", so no French and Belgian territory for Germany. And since Germany lost the Colonial war they can say bye bye to their colonies (Hindeburg and Ludendorf would not agree to these terms, so I hope they're gone). The real price for Germany would be in the east, and them getting a free hand to shape Eastern Europe.While I do agree about giving up the colonies, the naval agreement and not annexing French lands, is Luxemburg really that important to the Entente that they would continue the war over it? I can understand the fuss they would make over Belgium remaining whole, but why Luxemburg?