Need help making aFranco-Russian allaince occur in Napoleons time.

There are many Napoleon PODs but Im looking at the war to an unsual perspectice, after the battle of Auschiwitz( sorry for not spelling it correctly) Russo-Austrian relations were at an all time low while now the Russians did not trust their so called allies Britain because most Russians beleives they would get nothing from the Victory and for some time now Malta was not given to Russia and the British interferred with their polocies in Asia minor. But Franco- Russian relations were at an all time high the Russian Nobility was completly Francophone, because they wore French fashions, most studied abroad in France, French Governesses regularly taught the children, followed many French customs, and nearly all spoke French, and Alexander himself met with Napoleon in Russia, but war was really not inevitable, only due to those certain event and Napoleon's Obstinate demands, and Alexanders refusal fueled war. Also the continental system was hurting Russia, so I beleive a Franco-Russian allaince, or at most a relative peace beetween the two, The main reason as to why France invaded Russia was due to the duchy of Oldenburg, Russian wanted Napoleons advance to stop and move back across the Niem river, while Napoleon tries to compromise and take the duchy and no longer advance, but due to the obstinate will of the two sovereigns and machinations of the British were inevitable, so in this TL Apexander agrees to give the duchy of Oldenburg so Russo Franco relations don't sour. Then Instead of focusing on a Grande armee, Napoleon can focus on rebuilding the French Fleet, So maybe then Britain would do something stupid, and make the Russians angry, so relations sour even more while Napoleon agrees to remove the continental system against Russia in return for an allaince, and have the Russian nobles encourage Alexander to accept, with this Prussia is conquered Austria silenced Russia allied with France against them ( Britains nightmare) leads to Britain having no support on the continent. Could thisnwork or is it too ASB....
 
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I think you mean Austerlitz (1805), but if you do the Treaty of Tilsit DID occur afterwards, in 1807...

It wasn't clear from your text whether you mean that after the end of the War of the Third Coalition there is a lasting peace and the War of the Fourth Coalition does not break out?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
I think you mean Austerlitz (1805), but if you do the Treaty of Tilsit DID occur afterwards, in 1807...

It wasn't clear from your text whether you mean that after the end of the War of the Third Coalition there is a lasting peace and the War of the Fourth Coalition does not break out?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf[/QUOTE
Yeah I was hoping that with a Russo Franco allaince against Britain there would be no war of the 4rth coalition because now Britain is entirely cut off from the continent, and so No Russian campaign, no enemies in the east, nondestruction of the Grandee army, Austria silenced, Prussia swallowed Napoleon would be able to survive, and create a stable and lasting French empire.
 
Well, basically the only way for the Franco-Russian alliance to survive is for Napoleon to abandon the Continetal System. That was screwing up the Russian economy, and Alexander's evasion and later total abandonment of it was a proncipal cause of war. However, Napoleon sems to have been heavily committed to the CS, and unlikely to do this.
 
Well, basically the only way for the Franco-Russian alliance to survive is for Napoleon to abandon the Continetal System. That was screwing up the Russian economy, and Alexander's evasion and later total abandonment of it was a proncipal cause of war. However, Napoleon sems to have been heavily committed to the CS, and unlikely to do this.


That is why Im planning for Napoleons fleet to be horriy destroyed so he can no longer blockade thus destroying the system.
 
That is why Im planning for Napoleons fleet to be horriy destroyed so he can no longer blockade thus destroying the system.


I thought it pretty much had been at Trafalgar.

That,as I understand it, was why he adopted the CS. He could not strike directly at Britain by sea, so he tried to "blockade" her from dry land, by forbidding anyone on the Continent to trade with her. But, of course, they had this irritating habit of objecting to their trade being ruined - -
 
That is why Im planning for Napoleons fleet to be horriy destroyed so he can no longer blockade thus destroying the system.
Oh dear God:eek: Please, check first what the Continental Blockade was... It was instituted BECAUSE of horrible losses of French fleet, which made large scale naval operations against Britain pointless. In fact, Continental Blockade was more alike to an embargo than to what is commonly associated with the term "blockade".
 
There are many Napoleon PODs but Im looking at the war to an unsual perspectice, after the battle of Auschiwitz( sorry for not spelling it correctly) Russo-Austrian relations were at an all time low while now the Russians did not trust their so called allies Britain because most Russians beleives they would get nothing from the Victory and for some time now Malta was not given to Russia and the British interferred with their polocies in Asia minor.

That Russia and Britain got on badly at best is perceftly true; but Russia had reasons of its own to be fighting the potentially dominant power in Europe.

But Franco- Russian relations were at an all time high the Russian Nobility was completly Francophone, because they wore French fashions, most studied abroad in France, French Governesses regularly taught the children, followed many French customs, and nearly all spoke French,

That doesn't mean they approved of the French government. Quite a lot of the French in Russia, remember, from governesses to hostesses to army majors to governors of Odessa, were emigres. The Russian service-nobility didn't like policies of co-operation with France. That's part of why they offed Paul.

and Alexander himself met with Napoleon in Russia, but war was really not inevitable, only due to those certain event and Napoleon's Obstinate demands, and Alexanders refusal fueled war. Also the continental system was hurting Russia, so I beleive a Franco-Russian allaince, or at most a relative peace beetween the two,

The effects of participating in the French CoSys gave the Russians a strong incentive to move back to a British alighnment, actually.

The main reason as to why France invaded Russia was due to the duchy of Oldenburg, Russian wanted Napoleons advance to stop and move back across the Niem river, while Napoleon tries to compromise and take the duchy and no longer advance, but due to the obstinate will of the two sovereigns and machinations of the British were inevitable, so in this TL Apexander agrees to give the duchy of Oldenburg so Russo Franco relations don't sour.

Oldenburg was merely a symbol. The real issue was that the Russians were confidant in their ability to face the French in the field, so they quietly left CoSys in 1810. It took Napoleon a lot of fruitless negotiations before he tried to resolve the mess by invasion - and the hole in CoSys caused by Russian exit was a considerable part of why he annexed NW Germany and the Netherlands, including Oldenburg. The fuss raised by Russia was a signal of their growing assertiveness against France.

One can't change the effects and then pretend the causes no longer exist.

Then Instead of focusing on a Grande armee, Napoleon can focus on rebuilding the French Fleet, So maybe then Britain would do something stupid, and make the Russians angry, so relations sour even more while Napoleon agrees to remove the continental system against Russia in return for an allaince,

The point was that one of the terms of the alliance s signed at Tilsit was that Russia joined CoSys. If Russia was allowed to sit out, other countries would start defying it, not to mention that British goods could just enter Europe after a stop at Odessa. The hope of winning the trdae war against Britain would vanish.

If Napoleon could delay the breach with Russia (easy enough if he makes less of a mess of Spain) and force Britain to terms, CoSys could be dismantled; but I think Russia and France wouldn't stay on good terms in this scenario for long.

and have the Russian nobles encourage Alexander to accept, with this Prussia is conquered Austria silenced Russia allied with France against them ( Britains nightmare) leads to Britain having no support on the continent. Could thisnwork or is it too ASB....

Prussia was conquered: more French under arms in the country than Prussians. Austria was a Napoleonic ally.
 
Alright I understand I did research on the blockade and you guys are right, I've done more research, So I've changed plans, here's what I'll make instead, In 1805 I plan to have the British commit some huge blunder against Russia, what I'm planning is that after their loss, Alexander not wanting to lose face in fron of Napoleon and searches for an enemy to conquer he decides to attack the Ottomans, This enrages the British who try stopping Russia but confident of Russia being powerful Alexander invades, Now it is not ASB because Alexander was an emperor who felt inferior to Napoleon who also being an emperor crushed Russia many times and won splendid victories, he wants to be remembered for something, and if he attacks the Ottoman empire it wod give Russia an excuse to seize malta and other Islands controlled by Britain and get rid of their two enemies. Napoleon seizes this chance and offers to remove blockade against Russia in exchange for an allaince. Would this work.....
 
Russia declares war on OE and somehow they take Malta? WHAT?!?!

What would be the point of lifting the Continental System for Russia, if Russia is at war with Britain? Obviously Britain won't trade with the country its at war with, so the economic backlash that the Russian economy had from being cut off from British trade would continue.
 
Alexander and Napoleon had discussed joint action against Turkey after Tilsit, but it all broke down because Napoleon wouldn't agree to Alexander having Constantinople. He reprtedly said "That would be the Empire of the world" or similar.

This was always the problem with Napoleon. He couldn't conceive of a partnership of equals. To him "Ally" implied "subordinate". He didn't mind throwing Alexander the odd crumb, like Finland, but anything really big, forget it.

It recalls what Truman reportedly said about General MacArthur." A great guy, but he couldn't get on with anyone who wouldn't kiss his *** ". [1] Alexander was not prepared to do so.


[1] Of course, as the Spanish royals found out, even if you did kiss it, that didn't necessarily guarantee your safety. :)
 
Alexander and Napoleon had discussed joint action against Turkey after Tilsit, but it all broke down because Napoleon wouldn't agree to Alexander having Constantinople. He reprtedly said "That would be the Empire of the world" or similar.

This was always the problem with Napoleon. He couldn't conceive of a partnership of equals. To him "Ally" implied "subordinate". He didn't mind throwing Alexander the odd crumb, like Finland, but anything really big, forget it.

It recalls what Truman reportedly said about General MacArthur." A great guy, but he couldn't get on with anyone who wouldn't kiss his *** ". [1] Alexander was not prepared to do so.


[1] Of course, as the Spanish royals found out, even if you did kiss it, that didn't necessarily guarantee your safety. :)


I see, TY It gave me an idea I'll start a Pod during Napoleons childhood similiar to Napoleon's victory TL, so that Napoleon will have a slightly different mindset, that will allow him to give Russia Constantinople, and allow him to not treat allies like dirt, could it work then....
 
That Russia and Britain got on badly at best is perceftly true; but Russia had reasons of its own to be fighting the potentially dominant power in Europe.

This is true, but I'm not sure why the two powers couldn't hav come to some rapproachment. After all, Russian and British interests also conflicted. I think the key to any resolution would have to be France offering Russia a free hand in the Ottoman Empire, though.
 
This is true, but I'm not sure why the two powers couldn't hav come to some rapproachment. After all, Russian and British interests also conflicted. I think the key to any resolution would have to be France offering Russia a free hand in the Ottoman Empire, though.


Alright, so Ill start the TL where In Napoleons egyption campaign convinces the directory to make a deal with Russia, Russia would be promised free reign in the Ottoman empire if they invaded, Then faces with a two front war, the advantages would be huge, Egypt will be easier to conquer and Russia will accept becaus of Tsar Alexanders ambition to seize Constantinople wod be fulfied for giving Egypt and the Levant to France, a win win deal for Russia and France, and the Ottomans would crumble when faces with a two front war. How's this....
 
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