Need help in dating a Musket.
- Thread starter Karolus Rex
- Start date
So I have found some things.
I got the person that sold the musket wrong
. The person that sold it was in the army but he never was in the colonies so that origin was cut down.
I have seen some things and I now think it could be a hunting weapon of Spanish origin, especially because I live in the Galician-Portuguese border and the weapon could had been stolen during one of the raids the ordenanças usually against the Spanish. Thanks to @Behemoth I begun to see things about the Spanish Model 1752 and the size is similar, the Model 1752 is 145 cm and the Musket is 132 and as the barrel appears to have suffered some modification [the barrel end appears that had been cut because one of the sides is a bit longer, 1-3 millimeters (I'm doing this by mind I'm in uni and I don't have the gun with me now)].
The Model 1752 barrel was 110 cm long and this is 93 centimeters.
So what you guys think? Is it possible that it is a modified Model 1752?
I got the person that sold the musket wrong
. The person that sold it was in the army but he never was in the colonies so that origin was cut down.I have seen some things and I now think it could be a hunting weapon of Spanish origin, especially because I live in the Galician-Portuguese border and the weapon could had been stolen during one of the raids the ordenanças usually against the Spanish. Thanks to @Behemoth I begun to see things about the Spanish Model 1752 and the size is similar, the Model 1752 is 145 cm and the Musket is 132 and as the barrel appears to have suffered some modification [the barrel end appears that had been cut because one of the sides is a bit longer, 1-3 millimeters (I'm doing this by mind I'm in uni and I don't have the gun with me now)].
The Model 1752 barrel was 110 cm long and this is 93 centimeters.
So what you guys think? Is it possible that it is a modified Model 1752?
Only if they mention CLP...When someone with a gun fetish took it up to eleven.
I knew when I saw the thread was on its second page a Thespitronism would already be there. It only took 23 minutes. Were you in the middle of an episode of All My Circuits?
Iberian stuff isn't exactly my bag, but frankly, it looks like what you have is parts. It seems pretty clear that the entire lock was replaced at some point- it doesn't fit the inletting in the stock at all. This might have been to convert from flintlock to caplock (which was very common) but it doesn't have to be. The screw holding the trigger guard on is obviously a modern repair. If it had a known provenance or history it might be interesting, but as-is it is not. It's in bad shape and will probably be impossible to date or type if you cannot find any maker's marks. And even then, you'll have parts from at least two different sources. It's probably of most utility as a wall hanger.
The trigger guard looks like brass, in which case it would be more likely an M1757 than an M1752 if it is Spanish, but it's truly impossible to tell without markings. A true expert on Revolutionary-period arms might make a better guess.
The trigger guard looks like brass, in which case it would be more likely an M1757 than an M1752 if it is Spanish, but it's truly impossible to tell without markings. A true expert on Revolutionary-period arms might make a better guess.
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You can't count out the Model 1755 either which, like the Model 1757, is a modification of the Model 1752. Looking at the trigger guard a bit more closely and comparing, that part at least is of Spanish origin. The trigger guard from a Charleville, a French musket from around the same time period, is a bit more slender from what I can see thus far.
@Begemoth @acrsome The problem with this gun is that as changed hands too many times and suffered too many modifications over time.
The modern screws were added by the previous owner because when he got the gun the old screws where missing. The firing mechanism was changed at least once. The stock is splintered in some places.
I was going throw some photos from when I went to the Military Museum in Lisbon and Porto and thanks to my father pointing out that the barrel next to the firing mechanism had a six-side polygon shape, and the only weapon I could find that had that was a "Musquete de Amurada" (this was a weapon produced for ships and fortresses), it was produced from the 15th to the 18th century, the size was normally 128cm.
I found the shape next to the firing mechanism strange because on the photos I have of the muskets used on the Peninsular war they where always circular shaped yet this has more in common with the older musket whose barrel was shaped in a eight-side polygon.
If you zoom you can read the description but it's in Portuguese. If you guys want I can translate.
The modern screws were added by the previous owner because when he got the gun the old screws where missing. The firing mechanism was changed at least once. The stock is splintered in some places.
I was going throw some photos from when I went to the Military Museum in Lisbon and Porto and thanks to my father pointing out that the barrel next to the firing mechanism had a six-side polygon shape, and the only weapon I could find that had that was a "Musquete de Amurada" (this was a weapon produced for ships and fortresses), it was produced from the 15th to the 18th century, the size was normally 128cm.
I found the shape next to the firing mechanism strange because on the photos I have of the muskets used on the Peninsular war they where always circular shaped yet this has more in common with the older musket whose barrel was shaped in a eight-side polygon.
If you zoom you can read the description but it's in Portuguese. If you guys want I can translate.
I knew when I saw the thread was on its second page a Thespitronism would already be there. It only took 23 minutes. Were you in the middle of an episode of All My Circuits?
It turned out that
Monique had actually married Calculon's evil twin's evil twin. Only it wasn't Monique, but some kind of human duplicate.
"USE: from XVth century to the ends of the XVIIIth century@Begemoth @acrsome The problem with this gun is that as changed hands too many times and suffered too many modifications over time.
The modern screws were added by the previous owner because when he got the gun the old screws where missing. The firing mechanism was changed at least once. The stock is splintered in some places.
I was going throw some photos from when I went to the Military Museum in Lisbon and Porto and thanks to my father pointing out that the barrel next to the firing mechanism had a six-side polygon shape, and the only weapon I could find that had that was a "Musquete de Amurada" (this was a weapon produced for ships and fortresses), it was produced from the 15th to the 18th century, the size was normally 128cm.
I found the shape next to the firing mechanism strange because on the photos I have of the muskets used on the Peninsular war they where always circular shaped yet this has more in common with the older musket whose barrel was shaped in a eight-side polygon.
If you zoom you can read the description but it's in Portuguese. If you guys want I can translate.
EMPLOYMENT: in campaign and stocked in fortresses and ships
MUNITIONS: shot single balls and also Zagalote shots (basically multiple scattered shots with diameters smaller than the caliber)
CHARACTERISTICS: octogonal, very thick muzzle, prepared for triple charge, imported from the Biscaio region ("biscayan"), catalan-style or boot-shaped stock. Has vestiges of a transversal groove where it fit the roving windscreen, typical from the XVIth century. In the top of the muzzle are several U-shaped loops for sticking with hooks. In the end of the XVIIth century, they were modified, receiving a ring that supports the closing flintlock. Such alterations were made in the Gunpowder Factory of Bacarena. Thus, they're known as the "muskets of Bacarena".
TOTAL WEIGHT: 8 Kilograms and 285 grams
LENGTH: 1.38 Meters (about 4.2 feet)"
Ok while I found the "asking a musket out" jokes very funny, its been 5 days and at this point you might have powder but there are no more bullets, so unless anyone is willing to pull out one of his teeth to use as a projectile, lets try to keep the jokes at a 1-4 ratio (1 joke per 4 posts about what kind of musket this could be).
Does any of you guys know any technics to remove the rust from the barrel?
Also is there anyway to restore the stoke or is without saving?
Also is there anyway to restore the stoke or is without saving?
Carefully take the gun apart. Check the underside of the barrel for cartouches, and recheck the top. Keep all the parts together, put them into a cloth bag or box. You can remove rust by soaking the parts in a mixture of distilled vinegar and water. You will need a bore brush for the barrel, measure the diameter and check with a firearms store to get one that is slightly larger the diameter of the bore. Make sure you put a light coat of oil on it after your done cleaning it and its completely dry.. You should also use a very mild soap to clean the stock and check for cartouches on it. Once you've gotten it cleaned you will know more about what you have and whether it can be repaired. I'll subscribe to this thread to see how it works out for you, and you probably will have more luck in determining the type of gun by using one of the other forums suggested. Good Luck!
I'm waiting for my registration to be accepted. Also lets leave what does and doesn't belongs in what to the mods.
Thanks very much for the info!
We will try to begin the restoration when I'm back from Uni so December and we are already speaking with some carpenters about the stock and if its possible to restore it.
As soon as I know so more things about the weapon and when we begin the restoration I will post so you guys can can see our attempt of restoration
.Again Thanks mate!
I did not mean it in malice, I'm just saying that this forum is probably not where you'll get the most useful answer to your query, regardless of what the mods decide about your thread.
Looking forward to your thread on the ethnographic arms & armour forum and seeing what replies you get there.
E: also, see if you can acquire some ferric chloride as I believe that is the best etchant to restor your gun. Would be nice to get the barrel nice and shiny again.
It's important to note that firearms are not like cars. In automobile restoration the whole point is to make them look pretty and 'like new' again. But such a restoration utterly destroys the collector value of a gun. (Not that your gun likely has much intrinsic value.) You can clean them, but you shouldn't polish or re-blue them, for instance.