Naziwank, with corrections

World War II, 1942-1946

Withdrawn yet again, for lack of eliminating the damn ASBs.
 
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And how did the Nazis defeat the Soviet warmachine. By 1942 Stalin would have had 500 divisions and thousands of T-34s and KV-1s and Stalin would have no qualms about stabbing the Nazis in the back. Also France would have been stronger with a new fighter superior to the Bf-109 (can't remember the name though). And wouldn't Italy be awarded a colonial empire and perhaps a sphere of influence in Yugoslavia? And I hate to burst your bubble but Germany doesn't have the materials for jet engines (as OTL proved) and the USSR will stop giving the Nazis tungsten when Stalin feels he's ready which means that the Germans can't replace lost fighters. The RN by 1942 will still be bigger than the Kriegsmarine even with two carriers so they will try to strangle German trade.

I'd take a different PoD. Hitler condemns the Japanese attack on PH which makes it politically impossible for FDR to arbitrarily DoW Germany since the view of Germany will become more favourable in TTL. Germany beats the USSR in 42-43 and Britain surrenders in spite of L-L in 44-45 due to exhaustion but not before taking Italy's colonies away. Britain turns into a nasty fascist or socialist state.

If you can make it plausible I will tolerate it though. I have't seen a good Nazi-victory TL in a long time. BTW who will succeed Hitler after he drops dead.
 
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France should have the Dewoitne D.520 in substantial numbers by 1942. This aircraft was a match for the Bf109 and would have made the pursuit of air superiority over the battlefield very difficult for the Germans. Plus, the French would be backed by British aircraft[Spitfires etc]. Without control of the air, a blitzkrieg style victory could not be achieved in the west and it would all become a very bloody affair for the Germans.
No blitzkrieg in the West means no Barbarossa. Stalin will either bide his time,pressuring Hitler for more border adjustments by threatening to reduce deliveries of vital raw materials or build up his forces and attack the Nazis after they have been sufficiently weakened by the war in the west. POD's too late, Germany simply can't beat France/Britain rapidly if at all post-42 and it certainly can't K.O the Soviets either. Like Onkel says though, a different POD would resolve these issues.
 
France should have the Dewoitne D.520 in substantial numbers by 1942. This aircraft was a match for the Bf109 and would have made the pursuit of air superiority over the battlefield very difficult for the Germans. Plus, the French would be backed by British aircraft[Spitfires etc]. Without control of the air, a blitzkrieg style victory could not be achieved in the west and it would all become a very bloody affair for the Germans.
No blitzkrieg in the West means no Barbarossa. Stalin will either bide his time,pressuring Hitler for more border adjustments by threatening to reduce deliveries of vital raw materials or build up his forces and attack the Nazis after they have been sufficiently weakened by the war in the west. POD's too late, Germany simply can't beat France/Britain rapidly if at all post-42 and it certainly can't K.O the Soviets either. Like Onkel says though, a different POD would resolve these issues.

Carefully note what I said: the Luftwaffee's large scale adoption of jet aircraft, which they could have done very early on would have kept their domination of the air. Esentially what I have going on for my POD is top leaders of the Wermarcht and SS largely turn Hitler into a puppet and are able to change several strategies, namely the adoption of Jet aircraft and the use of carriers by the Kreigsmarine.
 
That won't be enough. Germany had two carriers under construction (Graf Zeppelin and Peter Strasser) and it takes two years to finish one. Secondly, Germany has limited resources to rearm, if you start building carriers beyond the two already being built, the Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht will receive less resources and will be smaller and less well equipped. And, as I said before, German jet engine designs required tungsten blades (other alloys would melt after 25 flight hours). Only the USSR can supply that and jets will therefore form only a small part of the Luftwaffe, large scale employment of jets will take much longer than your timescale (the remainder will be regular Ju-87 Stukas, Ju-88s, Bf-109s, Fw-190s and He-111s). Blitzkrieg won't be possible and advance will be more slowly and much more costly. In your scenario, even if France falls, Germany will be much more exhausted and guess who's waiting to stab Hitler in the back, Stalin.

You really need another PoD (such as the neutral America one or Britain being defeated at Dunkirk, leading to Britain getting a White Peace and Germany defeating the Soviet Union by 1942).
 
That won't be enough. Germany had two carriers under construction (Graf Zeppelin and Peter Strasser) and it takes two years to finish one. Secondly, Germany has limited resources to rearm, if you start building carriers beyond the two already being built, the Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht will receive less resources and will be smaller and less well equipped. And, as I said before, German jet engine designs required tungsten blades (other alloys would melt after 25 flight hours). Only the USSR can supply that and jets will therefore form only a small part of the Luftwaffe, large scale employment of jets will take much longer than your timescale (the remainder will be regular Ju-87 Stukas, Ju-88s, Bf-109s, Fw-190s and He-111s). Blitzkrieg won't be possible and advance will be more slowly and much more costly. In your scenario, even if France falls, Germany will be much more exhausted and guess who's waiting to stab Hitler in the back, Stalin.
I have it back 'in the shop' so to speak, trying to work out details.
 
You really need another PoD (such as the neutral America one or Britain being defeated at Dunkirk, leading to Britain getting a White Peace and Germany defeating the Soviet Union by 1942).

Do you suppose that I could do anything with the Pacific to explain Europe going to hell?
 
You want Nazi victory? These PoDs could do it.

1. Germany crushes the Dunkirk pocket. Over 300.000 casualties (either dead, missing or captured) lead to a vote of no confidence in Winston Churchill. Halifax becomes PM and gets off with a status quo ante bellum for Great Britain. German factories and cities aren't bombed, less troops in air defence roles, these are sent to the USSR when Operation Barbarossa kicks off in late May/early June. Because there is no bombing campaign, the German warmachine can also produce more weapons. Also, Germany can import whatever it wants since Britain is neutral and the RN is thus neutralized. Tungsten can be imported which means that Me-262s' engines will last much longer. German panzers can get tungsten core ammo. Moscow might or might not fall, depending on Stalin's decisions and whether or not Sorge's intel on Japan is not butterflied away. Eventually the USSR surrenders in 42-43, getting a border running from Leningrad to Astrakhan. Voila, a Greater German Reich victorious. Without Britain in the fight, America is unlikely to become involved in Europe. America can only bomb from bases in Iceland and can't liberate Europe without a decent base of operations, i.e. Britain. War won't end until A-bombs fall in '45 and Congress won't DoW Germany in such a scenario, regardless of what FDR wants; the cost is too high for too little gain.

2. Hitler, after hearing about the Japanese sneak attack on Pearl Harbor, becomes infuriated. Guessing that Japan won't help him against the Soviets now, he makes a speech condemning the sneak attack, ranting about Japanese inferiority and stating that Germany, as a good Aryan brother nation, will do anything short of declaring war on Japan to help. Also, Hitler expresses his deepest sympathy with the families of perished American sailors, leading to him becoming Times Man Of the Year or something. Congress and the public will start to question what the hell American ships are doing fighting the Germans in the Atlantic. FDR can't politically afford to keep up his private shadow war, although crushing the Nazis would be better for American markets but the average American sadly is not an economist. Lend-Lease goes down to the bare minimum (mostly money) and L-L to the USSR stops entirely. With Britain in the war, troops are committed to Africa and the Africa corps still exists. The British can defeat them since Hitler paid little attention to Africa historically and won't do so ITTL. An invasion of the European mainland is likely to be rebuffed since Britain alone can't achieve the air supremacy needed for an invasion. The Soviets make some sort of Brest-Litovsk V2.0 deal or worse in 1943. The Tory government gets a backlash and Labour wins a landslide-victory in the next elections.


You can run with either of these as far as I'm concerned. These are the PoDs I see. A PoD in the Pacific is out of the question. A war between Japan and the US was inevitable at that point. Japan perceived America as aggressive and FDR is likely to stage an incident if Japan attempts to bypass American territory go for the DEI directly and Japan has to conquer the DEI to avoid economic strangulation (through the American embargo)or leave China (accept for Manchuria perhaps) which is unacceptable for the militarists. The Philippines are right in the middle of their freakin' supply lines so Japan will attack. With the first PoD there will be no Taranto raid which could be interesting... Japan'll go for the 'Annihilation Battle' instead, involving Japanese carriers ambushing the Pacific fleet in the Philippines, sinking the BBs in deep water so they can't be salvaged.

In both scenarios the US and the UK can focus on the Pacific. Nukes might not be used on Japan, creating less awareness of their destructive power. I could see Japan surrender by winter 44/45, depending on how well they do.
 
Nah, Stalin isn't dumb enough to do that as long as an aggressive Nazi-Germany is still on his borders. Stalin was paranoid you know :rolleyes:.
 
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