Nazis standardize Wunderwaffe before barbarossa

[octoberman]

what if Nazis had standardized before the invading soviet union
Heinkel and Messerschmitt series as fighters
Arado Ar 234 B as bombers
StG 44 as standard infantry rifle
Tiger II as standard tank
V2 as submarine weapons and long range artillery
Fritz X as anti ship weapon ?
how would this effect their wartime performance

 

[Sam R.]

Negatively. The inability to produce these in 1938, let alone produce these at operationally significant numbers, means that France, if not Poland, blunts foot and horse advances which lack the assistance of early tactical air support and locally decisive tank divisions.

 

[octoberman]

Negatively. The inability to produce these in 1938, let alone produce these at operationally significant numbers, means that France, if not Poland, blunts foot and horse advances which lack the assistance of early tactical air support and locally decisive tank divisions.

what if it was before barbarossa but after fall of france

 

[Mike D]

what if it was before barbarossa but after fall of france

In 1940/41 they probably still can't mass produce any of the jets, the V2s or the Fritz X while standardising on the Tiger II (if they can even get the design production ready that early) is going to leave them with about enough tanks for a couple of panzer divisions at best so they're going to get slaughtered in the desert by the British and even the totally incompetent of the Red Army in 1941 probably gives them problems.

 

[alspug]

The Tiger 11 took up so many man hours to make that every one built means another 5 tanks like the Panzer IV or Panther got built. 300,000 hours to make the Tiger II and 55,000 to make the Panther.

It is worth noting that the Sherman aparently took some 48,000 hours. That figure to me seems off but the time to make includes the time to make each individual component down to the bolts and nuts.

The Factory for the Panther could turn them out in 2,000 man hours from recieving the parts needed. I'm guessing that means the armour plate, engine etc etc.

 

[Intosh]

what if Nazis had standardized before the invading soviet union
Heinkel and Messerschmitt series as fighters
Arado Ar 234 B as bombers
StG 44 as standard infantry rifle
Tiger II as standard tank
V2 as submarine weapons and long range artillery
Fritz X as anti ship weapon ?
how would this effect their wartime performance

Such an idea should go to the ASB sub-forums because it is not impossible given the bad state of German economy who only were able to continue to produce by looting all Europe and using massively slave labor.

And to answer your question, the wartime performances will give the Germans the possibility to win the war and to complete their inhumane plans to kill hundred of millions of people, in addition to the ten of millions they killed in OTL.

 

[Dorknought]

but after France they ran out of Great Powers they could defeat.

 

[octoberman]

but after France they ran out of Great Powers they could defeat.

was french army worse than IJA ?

 

[vizzer]

was french army worse than IJA ?

Did you mean in terms of weapon production or in combat?
If the latter putting the Japanese in place of the Germans for an attack in 1940 will end up with French tanks rolling through "Berlin". 😋

 

[octoberman]

Did you mean in terms of weapon production or in combat?
If the latter putting the Japanese in place of the Germans for an attack in 1940 will end up with French tanks rolling through "Berlin". 😋

the former

 

[vizzer]

the former

Then, even with the mess that was French armament production, they produced more and heavier tanks than the Japanese. While in aircraft IIRC they were probably more even, although the French did import a lot from the US to make up numbers.

 

[Bougnas]

Then, even with the mess that was French armament production, they produced more and heavier tanks than the Japanese. While in aircraft IIRC they were probably more even, although the French did import a lot from the US to make up numbers.

If you add up intended (and achieved) tank production rates in France you get 120+190+50+20 ish R40s, H39s, B1s and S35s so 380/month or 4k per year give or take. This was to rise further with North American-produced French tanks, industrialization of S40 and ease of production of B1 Ter, so more like 500+month in 1941 or 6k per year.

Comparable to UK overall but might rise further.

 

[Garrison]

what if Nazis had standardized before the invading soviet union
Heinkel and Messerschmitt series as fighters
Arado Ar 234 B as bombers
StG 44 as standard infantry rifle
Tiger II as standard tank
V2 as submarine weapons and long range artillery
Fritz X as anti ship weapon ?
how would this effect their wartime performance

How would they achieve any of this in 1941? Some of the weapons you are referring to weren't even designed in 1939 let alone in development. You are suggesting that Germany somehow develops the Tiger II at a time when they were struggling to get adequate production of the Pz III and Pz IV. the first German jet testbed only flew in 1939, there is no way they have operational fighters and bombers in 1941.

 

[Bougnas]

How would they achieve any of this in 1941? Some of the weapons you are referring to weren't even designed in 1939 let alone in development. You are suggesting that Germany somehow develops the Tiger II at a time when they were struggling to get adequate production of the Pz III and Pz IV. the first German jet testbed only flew in 1939, there is no way they have operational fighters and bombers in 1941.

Not the know-how, and not the requirements for these weapons either.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

How would they achieve any of this in 1941? Some of the weapons you are referring to weren't even designed in 1939 let alone in development. You are suggesting that Germany somehow develops the Tiger II at a time when they were struggling to get adequate production of the Pz III and Pz IV. the first German jet testbed only flew in 1939, there is no way they have operational fighters and bombers in 1941.

Beyond this, the effort requires dumbing down the military as all skilled labor, and those with advanced engineering skilled remain in industry. Keeping up the high quality NCO and officer cadre that made the Army so dangerous 1941 - 1943 is a lot less practical.

 

[Resurgam]

what if Nazis had standardized before the invading soviet union
Heinkel and Messerschmitt series as fighters
Arado Ar 234 B as bombers
StG 44 as standard infantry rifle
Tiger II as standard tank
V2 as submarine weapons and long range artillery
Fritz X as anti ship weapon ?
how would this effect their wartime performance

The resources and men to do that were consumed in earlier operations. Barbarossa isn't even planned, much less launched, in this situation.

 

[James123456]

Jet Fighters and Bombers? Since when did they have the fuel and resources?
STG-44? How is that going to change the war? They already have weapon shortages, it would be better to just produce the weapons they already had.
Tiger Tanks? You mean the things that broke down every other second and were impossible to repair?
V2s? You mean the things that killed more workers that were producing it than actual enemy soldiers and civilians?
How this effects the war? They collapse in 1942 due to an even worst shortages of equipment because the Germans decided to go bonkers and instead of producing reliable and relatively cheap weapons such as the Kar 98k and the Panzer III, they start producing overexpensive, unreliable, hard to maintain crap that in many ways is worst than the equipment they already are using.

 

[Fire and shadow]

That sound like clearly ASB to me.

 

[Post]

How would they achieve any of this in 1941? Some of the weapons you are referring to weren't even designed in 1939 let alone in development. You are suggesting that Germany somehow develops the Tiger II at a time when they were struggling to get adequate production of the Pz III and Pz IV. the first German jet testbed only flew in 1939, there is no way they have operational fighters and bombers in 1941.

They can have them if they postpone Barbarossa until 1944.
Obviously that brings some other issues with it.

 

[CaptainCalvert]

Jet Fighters and Bombers? Since when did they have the fuel and resources?
STG-44? How is that going to change the war? They already have weapon shortages, it would be better to just produce the weapons they already had.
Tiger Tanks? You mean the things that broke down every other second and were impossible to repair?
V2s? You mean the things that killed more workers that were producing it than actual enemy soldiers and civilians?
How this effects the war? They collapse in 1942 due to an even worst shortages of equipment because the Germans decided to go bonkers and instead of producing reliable and relatively cheap weapons such as the Kar 98k and the Panzer III, they start producing overexpensive, unreliable, hard to maintain crap that in many ways is worst than the equipment they already are using.

The upside of this approach is not just an earlier Nazi collapse but also much greater likelihood of failure in France. If they do somehow manage to take France, Barbarossa will be delayed or less successful due to shortage of tanks before the inevitable end.