Nazis Invade the UK, 1950

One thing to note (and I'm sorry if I'm repeating what anyone else has said) is that with peace in 1943 the impetus to build the VENGEANCE weapons would be lost. This could actually work well to Germany's advantage - Speer said after the war that it would have made far better strategic sense to have focused on the anti-aircraft and anti-ship missiles, and on the jet aircraft, rather than to pour huge resources into the V2 project.

In the scenario of peace in 1943 it seems quite plausible that this is indeed what they would do. Therefore, when war resumes Germany has a much more efficient anti-aircraft defence (no more hail of flak from 88s better employed as land weapons), and has advanced anti-ship missiles descended from the type that in OTL took out the Roma.

It thus may well be possible to wage an offensive war without being smashed back home from the air, and to take on the Royal Navy with the airforce playing the main role.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Finally remember that Attlee isn't Hitler. Attlee won't have ordered that only he can release the armoured divisions or that no one can disturb his nap.

Attlee is going to have had to face at least one election by 1950 - depending on whether he feels honour-bound in 1943 to have one after taking over as PM, he would then have to have another by 1948. Even if he goes a year or so to secure the transition to peace, he would still have had to face another by 1949, presuming he wins the first one that is !

If he thinks he can get a Labour majority then he's going to go to the country in 43-44, since a Labour minority running a National Government full of Conservatives is not a happy proposition (look what happened to MacDonald when he tried it).

By 48-49 the mood in the country might well favour a return for the Conservatives, a new generation perhaps

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Therefore, when war resumes Germany has a much more efficient anti-aircraft defence (no more hail of flak from 88s better employed as land weapons), and has advanced anti-ship missiles descended from the type that in OTL took out the Roma.

Eh, the Wasserfall and related systems really weren't workable (MCLOS with a high altitude SAM=not world's smartest idea) and the incoming bombers are Canberras, which are effectively uninterceptable until Nike Ajax. At this point in time, radar guided anti-ship missiles are too vulnerable to countermeasures to be useful.
 
Eh, the Wasserfall and related systems really weren't workable (MCLOS with a high altitude SAM=not world's smartest idea) and the incoming bombers are Canberras, which are effectively uninterceptable until Nike Ajax. At this point in time, radar guided anti-ship missiles are too vulnerable to countermeasures to be useful.

What about IR homing ASMs? A ship should stand out as a big thermal target.
 
What about IR homing ASMs? A ship should stand out as a big thermal target.

Jet turbines and their exhaust are much bigger targets and we didn't get one working against them reliably until at least 1953. even then, they weren't suitable against targets down low, the sun off of the water is likely to prevent lock. Also keep in mind that the ranges that you could get a lock on at were no more than a couple of miles, too close to be beneficial for anti-ship work.
 
Jet turbines and their exhaust are much bigger targets and we didn't get one working against them reliably until at least 1953. even then, they weren't suitable against targets down low, the sun off of the water is likely to prevent lock. Also keep in mind that the ranges that you could get a lock on at were no more than a couple of miles, too close to be beneficial for anti-ship work.

Got it. Another idea would br a smart bomb raid. Something like the German radio controlled bombs they used in 43-44 dropped from bombers.
 
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Got it. Another idea would br a smart bomb raid. Something like the German radio controlled bombs they used in 43-44 dropped from bombers.

How do the bombers avoid radar and flak long enough to get into position and hit their targets?
 

Chris

Banned
Another thought; what sort of role might Philby and the other Cambridge Spies play in the drama? I tend to hesitate between them serving - unwillingly - the reich and them working towards a british victory, as it might free the remains of the USSR.

Chris
 
No way would the they help the Nazi's. They were traitorous scum who deserved to be shot, but they were also Idealistic Communists and it would be bloody hard to make them help the destroyer of the worlds first true Communist state.
 
Another thought; what sort of role might Philby and the other Cambridge Spies play in the drama? I tend to hesitate between them serving - unwillingly - the reich and them working towards a british victory, as it might free the remains of the USSR.

I can't see them serving Hitler, not unless the Germans discovered the KGB files on the Cambridge Spies when they took Moscow. Even then there's things to bear in mind, first with the USSR gone the spies might well feel their best option is to confess all to MI-6 rather than work for the Germans, it's probably safer in the long run as if the Germans eventually invade the spies will know they're going to be deadmeat, second MI-5 caught every German agent who landed, the German intelligence service is nowhere near as efficent as the Russian intelligence service, the Germans could blow the entire Cambridge Spy Ring.
 
How do the bombers avoid radar and flak long enough to get into position and hit their targets?

Same way bombers with smart bombs do today very carefully. Against a land target suppersion of enemy defenses, jamming, and fighter cover will help the bombers reach their target. The Germans could also move and do research into TV guided bombs which were developed by the Allies during the war.
 
Got it. Another idea would br a smart bomb raid. Something like the German radio controlled bombs they used in 43-44 dropped from bombers.

Vulnerable to ECM however plus the German bombers will get massacred on the way in. I'd say that we are looking at Arada 234s for the mainstay of the German jet bomber force, perhaps the C variant. The sheer cost of the war will militate against them having anything more advanced than that. Unfortunately, that's not going to be fast or high enough to keep it away from US and UK jet fighters of that time.

The Germans could also move and do research into TV guided bombs which were developed by the Allies during the war.

Insufficient resolution at this point in time to be a useful weapon. Something like Dove could be a possibility, though there are countermeasures to it as well.
 

Chris

Banned
How in the world did the Nazis manage to get five operational carriers?

Built them? GZ was completed in 1944, Peter Striner (?) in 1945, 3, 4 and 5 (name suggestions welcome) were completed over the next five years.

Chris
 
Built them? GZ was completed in 1944, Peter Striner (?) in 1945, 3, 4 and 5 (name suggestions welcome) were completed over the next five years.

Chris

While there's a major resource sucking war and counter-insurgency campaign going on in the East? Peter Straßer was scrapped in 1940 prior to your POD. As I recall, the Graf Zeppelin was not a very good design, and would have likely only seen service as a training carrier. You'd need to design a successor to the Graf Zeppelin and that, plus the construction time, plus the time for sea trials and flight training, would result in probably only one additional ship by 1950.
 
One has to remember here that since the war developed in a totally different way, Britain may not have experienced the fielding of advanced German weapons until the time the invasion happened.
Therefore, radio controlled bombs may very well function here in the beginning of the conflict, since the British do not know about their existence.

Another idea would have been to have wire-guided bombs (pretty much like you had the first wire guided-missiles anti-tank in the 60s).
Invulnerable to jamming.
 
One has to remember here that since the war developed in a totally different way, Britain may not have experienced the fielding of advanced German weapons until the time the invasion happened.
Therefore, radio controlled bombs may very well function here in the beginning of the conflict, since the British do not know about their existence.

Aside from the fact that they would have been known of from the Russian campaign and from their own research into Azon and Razon (or similar weapons). Depending on when in 1943 the war ends, the RN may already have been subjected to attack by radio guided bombs.

Another idea would have been to have wire-guided bombs (pretty much like you had the first wire guided-missiles anti-tank in the 60s).
Invulnerable to jamming.

Invulnerable to jamming, but suicidal for the planes trying to make the run due to length of wire issues and the inability to make evasive manuevers.
 
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