Nazis Invade the UK, 1950
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
This is pretty interesting too
http://www.gimonca.com/sejarah/sejarah07.shtml
If Japan is going North they may not be so tough in their negotiating stance ?
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
The United States had, by 1940, already committed to more or less the Navy, Army, and Air Force that won WW II. Many of the carriers, BB's and cruisers had already been Funded & NAMED a year before Pearl Harbor. Watching the Nazi's wipe out the armies of Europe (and the horror stories that would leak out of the occuppied zones) would do nothing to reduce the American zeal to not get caught short. Ditto for a stronger Japan.
Where did Japan get the oil to survive if it didn't go after the East Indies? Unless they backed out of China, the U.S. wasn't going to trade with them, cutting them off from U.S. oil. The Brits were in control of the Middle East & were nominal allies of the USSR; they certainly weren't going to let Aramco ship oil to Japan even if the U.S. Government would allow it.
By 1950, even with less of a crash program (which I'm not sure still wouldn't happen, given the parameters laid out here) Manhatten would have produced results. The U.S. would have a number of weapons (probably a few less than IOTL, figure around 25-35) and would be just starting to ramp up production; given the nature of Europe's masters. The B-36 might not have been produced, but, given the Meteor and the P-80, it is likely that there would be an U.S. jet bomber (probably more like the Canberra than the B-47, which would be a shame, since the -47 is one of the best designs ever) and some sort of B-52 size/capacity design on the board.
BTW: ITTL the Germans would STILL probably not have a working weapon. The Communist "fellow travelers" who provided the pipeline to the NKVD & Stalin had no Fascist counterparts, meaning the Reich would be either still be chasing their tail or have given up on the Bomb.
It would be an interesting challenge for the Reich. They would still have to get air supremacy AND wipe out the RN before they could move on the UK. (Marine Mammal will not be any easier in this world, perhaps even more difficult, given the increase in weapon lethality per platform and the reliance the Heer would have developed on heavy armor after any protracted campaign in the USSR which will greatly complicate the invasion logistical effort.) The U.S. would proably be willing to, at the least, contribute naval, and probably, air elements to keep the Nazi's on the Continent and as far from the U.S. as possible.
Where did Japan get the oil to survive if it didn't go after the East Indies? Unless they backed out of China, the U.S. wasn't going to trade with them, cutting them off from U.S. oil. The Brits were in control of the Middle East & were nominal allies of the USSR; they certainly weren't going to let Aramco ship oil to Japan even if the U.S. Government would allow it.
By 1950, even with less of a crash program (which I'm not sure still wouldn't happen, given the parameters laid out here) Manhatten would have produced results. The U.S. would have a number of weapons (probably a few less than IOTL, figure around 25-35) and would be just starting to ramp up production; given the nature of Europe's masters. The B-36 might not have been produced, but, given the Meteor and the P-80, it is likely that there would be an U.S. jet bomber (probably more like the Canberra than the B-47, which would be a shame, since the -47 is one of the best designs ever) and some sort of B-52 size/capacity design on the board.
BTW: ITTL the Germans would STILL probably not have a working weapon. The Communist "fellow travelers" who provided the pipeline to the NKVD & Stalin had no Fascist counterparts, meaning the Reich would be either still be chasing their tail or have given up on the Bomb.
It would be an interesting challenge for the Reich. They would still have to get air supremacy AND wipe out the RN before they could move on the UK. (Marine Mammal will not be any easier in this world, perhaps even more difficult, given the increase in weapon lethality per platform and the reliance the Heer would have developed on heavy armor after any protracted campaign in the USSR which will greatly complicate the invasion logistical effort.) The U.S. would proably be willing to, at the least, contribute naval, and probably, air elements to keep the Nazi's on the Continent and as far from the U.S. as possible.
Flying wings, absent computerized "fly by wide" stability control, are inherently unstable and have a less than charming habit of entering multiple axes spins (e.g. the dreaded falling leaf). Flying wings look great on paper (YB-49 anyone?) but, prior to 21st Century avionics, were impractical in the real world.
It should also be noted that the most advanced jet engines in the world were being produced by Rolls Royce, not in Germany. The Germans would certainly have jets, but the RAF (and undoubtedly, USAF) would have them as well.
Chris
Banned
Assuming that they exist in this TL. Would the Manhatten Project still take place without the Pacific War? If so, would the UK and Germany still have a bomb?
Of course, the Germans might take over some of the russian spies if they take moscow...
Chris
Jesus Christ not this shit again!?!
First, let me make it clear for the umpteenth time, flying wings are so aerodynamically unstable that they were untenable as combat aircraft until the invention of computer controlled fly-by-wire systems.
Second, German designs will not out class British designs because aircraft design does not occur in a vacuum. Any German combat aircraft operating over Britain will be faced by aircraft and AA defences designed to counter those aircraft and the only people who believe otherwise are the Luftwaffe Fanboys who think the paper designs of a defeated dictatorship run by lunatic fantasists who would grasp at any half assed idea to try and stave off the defeat for another day are inherently superior to those of aircraft designers that don't have to pander to the likes of Goring.
Japan likely would have had to pull a large force out of China to Manchuria to go after the Vladivostok and the Maritime Province. Tokyo could have sold that as meeting the US's requirement in the newsreels while preparing their Move North. FDR would have been hard pressed to sell any hostility towards Japan with their pulling troops out of China, and John Q. Public isn't going to worry about Red Russia.
Chris
Banned
I think that that would have been clear when they actually tried to fly one.
True. People are fanboys because they look so cool.
Chris
I'm not sure this is necessarily correct, I've posted a few times about the Tube Alloys project and its IMO key role as precursor to the Manhattan Project. E.g. this post
The key point is that the US scientists had made the same mistake that the German ones did and thought that the bomb would require tons of U235, hence a bomb seemed impracticable and research was directed more towards reactors for propulsion. Only the British scientists had correctly discerned that only pounds of U235 were required and a bomb was hence eminently feasible.
We need to know what level of Anglo-US cooperation Chris is envisaging ITTL but unless it is as high as OTL, which seems quite unlikely, then IMO what he possibly needs to consider is not a US bomb by 1950 but a British one.
Keenir
Banned
apologies; I missed the post that said Germany ruled the entire Continent. (I kinda assumed that, if it's survived, Germany avoided terminal overextension. (focusing on the USSR, is the impression I got from the OP)
Well it would basically be the Axis Pact, I think. Germany would coerce the rest of Europe to join it, so would indirectly dominate what it did not directly control
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Admiral Canaris
Banned
A bit like how they ran Eastern Europe, one might assume, leaving local rulers in charge as long as they don't get uppity. Perhaps also with some troops and/or local quislings in position to make sure such shows don't last long if they start. Or else, something a bit more like the Warsaw Pact/Comecon.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
I think you're wrong on both counts. The flying wings would have worked fine because they were propeller planes, not modern jets, and the Nazis were more innovative so by 1950 they would have totally outclassed the British.
Well, they had windtunnels. However considering that they ended the war flying the same plane they did at the beginning one might question their skill at actually putting designs into operation.
Oh right, well then, I think there was going to be a Gotha 666, actually powered by wank which made RAF pilots cry and bale out just to look at.
Edit: I think this is an interesting scenario and one I have thought of in the past. It is a chance to see a next generation of kit in action (ooh er.)
The problem is the politics and what happens in the intervening nine years. Is the UK protected by the US? Why does it not fall into the Nazi orbit? When/where is the bomb developed? What were the peace terms? Why has the war re-started? Whose interest is that even ostensibly in?