Nazis develop/mass produce Wunderwaffes early, not destroyed/captured or War is longer in Nazi Favor

B-29_Bomber

Banned
The war will likely last into late winter early spring 46.

German cities start eating Nukes and Germany is worse off post war ITTL.
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
USA strategic bombing campaign crippled the Nazi economy by air while Russians destroyed the Wehrmacht in the east

The US delayed the introduction the Me262 by about 6 months by bombing Regensburg in 1943 and destroying the jigs used to begin manufacturing them.

They lost 60 aircraft doing so, and 600+ men.

Otherwise, the combined bombing offensive of both the USAAF and RAF had a minimal effect on Nazi production of war materials, in proportion to Allied aircrew and aircraft lost.
 
The war will likely last into late winter early spring 46.

German cities start eating Nukes and Germany is worse off post war ITTL.

True. If Germany is too successful in their Wunderwaffe (be it V-1s, whatever), then they'll be contending with Allied Wunderwaffe in the form of atomic weaponry, which unfortunately for both them and the Japanese, will be produced in larger numbers than OTL so that both powers will experience some.
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
True. If Germany is too successful in their Wunderwaffe (be it V-1s, whatever), then they'll be contending with Allied Wunderwaffe in the form of atomic weaponr.

Whatever weapons the Nazis might produce in whatever quantity just staves off a Radioactive stunde null for a few months

The Allies had more and better 'wunderwaffen' than the Axis

And they actually worked.
 
Each V-2 required about 30 tonnes of food to be converted to fuel on launch, and the project cost more than the Manhattan Project, AND killed more people working on it than actual targets (not that that last one was a problem for the Nazis.)

If you had a giant pit dug, dumped in one BILLION Reichsmarks, and one hundred million pounds of food, then drenched it in 50 million pounds of food converted into fuel and then lit the whole damn thing on fire you would still not have used up as much resources as the ACTUAL project did. And this isn't even getting into the scientists involved who would have been more productive doing almost literally ANYTHING else, and not killed 12,000 of your own people.

All of this from a vastly smaller resource pool than the Allies had. To think that these resources couldn't be used more productively is insensible to the point of nonsense.

And yet you present NO USEABLE DATA other than 30 tons potatoes = 5tons liquid rocket fuel ;

Not going to change much unless you want to build an equally useless rocket. Ergo you have no point!

Would 2.5 BILLION RM produce a Nazi nuke ?.....NO- Why because they are missing critical components like enriched uranium or heavy water and the years of research.....and more importantly; money means nothing to the Nazi economy - nor does killing 12000 people.
 
And yet you present NO USEABLE DATA other than 30 tons potatoes = 5tons liquid rocket fuel ;

Not going to change much unless you want to build an equally useless rocket. Ergo you have no point!

Its not liquid rocket fuel. It was alchohol fuel that happened to be used in a rocket. You know what else that can be used for? Amongst other things, JET fuel. Or fuel for land vehicles if produced and used correctly. But of course I'm sure you'll insist the Nazis never suffered from fuel shortages.

Or it could be fucking EATEN since Germany was undergoing food shortages.

Would 2.5 BILLION RM produce a Nazi nuke ?.....NO- Why because they are missing critical components like enriched uranium or heavy water and the years of research....

The reason it wouldn't produce a Nazi nuke is because the Nazi nuclear project was a joke more dangerous to the people working on it than the Allies. Much like the V-2 actually.

money means nothing to the Nazi economy

Really...

Just really...?

If you are going to post nonsense at least think through it a bit first.
 
When I think of Wunderwaffe, I remember the Hispano Saetta, Helwan, HAL Marut, and the Pulqui II. I can't remember what happened with Sanger's Silbervogel.
 
Its not liquid rocket fuel. It was alchohol fuel that happened to be used in a rocket. You know what else that can be used for? Amongst other things, JET fuel. Or fuel for land vehicles if produced and used correctly. But of course I'm sure you'll insist the Nazis never suffered from fuel shortages.





The reason it wouldn't produce a Nazi nuke is because the Nazi nuclear project was a joke more dangerous to the people working on it than the Allies. Much like the V-2 actually.



Really...

Just really...?

If you are going to post nonsense at least think through it a bit first.

Really...

Just really...?

"This new learning amazes me Sir Belvedere "

Prove that Nazi used alcohol as jet fuel. Theyed be better off producing WODKA and dropping it on the Russians.

I've seen reference to jet fuel from kerosene diesel & avgas....hell the Argus pulse jet used gasoline, but never heard of alcohol?
 
I've seen reference to jet fuel from kerosene diesel & avgas....hell the Argus pulse jet used gasoline, but never heard of alcohol?
Then kindly go and read about it. The only issue with using ethanol in jets is that you get less energy from it than some other fuels.

Really...

Just really...?

"This new learning amazes me Sir Belvedere "

*insert roll-eyes*

Your attempts to mock would be more impressive if you hadn't claimed that money means nothing to an economy.

But I'm done. You clearly know little to nothing about the topic and I have no desire to continue talking to a wall..
 

nbcman

Donor
Really...

Just really...?

"This new learning amazes me Sir Belvedere "

Prove that Nazi used alcohol as jet fuel. Theyed be better off producing WODKA and dropping it on the Russians.

I've seen reference to jet fuel from kerosene diesel & avgas....hell the Argus pulse jet used gasoline, but never heard of alcohol?

The V-2 used alcohol as fuel per wiki:

The V-2 consumed a third of Germany's fuel alcohol production and major portions of other critical technologies:[60] to distill the fuel alcohol for one V-2 launch required 30 tonnes of potatoes at a time when food was becoming scarce.[61]
And further:
In fact, V2 rockets used several fuels, including about 900 gallons of ethanol each. The 3,000 rockets in the V2 program would have consumed about 2.7 million gallons overall, made from about 140,000 tons of potatoes. This was only a tiny fraction of the 40 million tons of potatoes harvested in Germany in 1944, which was a pretty bad year for potatoes, among many other things.
So yes Germany used potatoes to create fuel alcohol for V-2 rockets, but it only diverted about .35% of the 1944 total potato harvest.

Took almost no time to check this detail. I suggest using Google before using snark when participating in further discussions.
 

Deleted member 1487

The V-2 used alcohol as fuel per wiki:


And further:

So yes Germany used potatoes to create fuel alcohol for V-2 rockets, but it only diverted about .35% of the 1944 total potato harvest.

Took almost no time to check this detail. I suggest using Google before using snark when participating in further discussions.
The V-2 was not a get engine last time I checked.
 
The V-2 was not a get engine last time I checked.
Doesn't change the fact that ethanol can be used to fuel a jet engine. Its not super efficient to do so, but its still more efficient than literally anything related to the V-2 program.
 
The V-2 used alcohol as fuel per wiki:


And further:

So yes Germany used potatoes to create fuel alcohol for V-2 rockets, but it only diverted about .35% of the 1944 total potato harvest.

Took almost no time to check this detail. I suggest using Google before using snark when participating in further discussions.


Yes I knew that and said as much ; but wcv215.17566 -who made the original post- clearly did not.

In future please check your target before you fire.

I'M still waiting to hear about all these spectacular 'non sexy' weapons the Nazi could produce instead of the V-2 ????

Hitler ran the Nazi economy on credit right through the war, just adding more and more debit . I gather that Hitler told his staff that he had no intention to pay down this debit after the war, instead he told the staff he would force the debit on to occupied territories and or get the Reich Bank to erase this debit.
 
If the He-162 could have been designed earlier so the bugs could have been worked out it might have made a small difference.

Don't know if these count as wonder weapons but getting the Panzerschreck and Panzerfaust in action earlier (hopefully with Barbarossa) would have really helped the offensive. And stiffened their armor-poor allies (Hungary, Romania and Italy)...
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
When I think of Wunderwaffe, I remember the Hispano Saetta, Helwan, HAL Marut, and the Pulqui II.

And the Allied technology and materials it took to build them. The Pulqui, HA-300 and Marut had British jet engines, like the MiG-15 did.

And the people trying to make them weren't being bombed round the clock, and weren't underfed slaves.
 

Deleted member 1487

Doesn't change the fact that ethanol can be used to fuel a jet engine. Its not super efficient to do so, but its still more efficient than literally anything related to the V-2 program.
There was no proof given that it could be used for a jet engine.
And the Allied technology and materials it took to build them. The Pulqui, HA-300 and Marut had British jet engines, like the MiG-15 did.

And the people trying to make them weren't being bombed round the clock, and weren't underfed slaves.
1950s jets using jet engines largely developed AFTER WW2. Of course they wouldn't use engines that were of the mid-1940s vintage.

I'M still waiting to hear about all these spectacular 'non sexy' weapons the Nazi could produce instead of the V-2 ????
Assault rifles and the ammo for them. More AT guns. More AAA guns.
 
Instead of the V2, create a surface to air missile, up to 50,000 feet. It would be un-aimed of course, but against dense bomber formations, might work more effective than flak.

Have the early jets focus on recon only, where their smaller numbers, might provide useful information, vs attacking the bomber streams. (i.e. the 60 jets attacking a bomber stream wouldn't help as much as 60 jets over the eastern front knowing where Stalin's next offensive is coming).

Push an earlier V1 instead of the V2. Germany is going to have to have a retaliatory weapon, wonder weapons are the only hope people have. Have a MARK 2 that can make a single right angle turn would help increase percentages avoiding AA on the way in. Perhaps some of the recon jets can help with general targeting (are they hitting anywhere near their target?).

Some of the concepts of the XXI submarine, could have been envisioned earlier, were not leading tech, more batteries, better submerged shape, reducing carried guns, quicker torpedo loading, just requires someone to think earlier of operating in the face or enemy air/naval superiority.

A torpedo capable of making 1 right angle turn or a snaking pattern a year or two earlier would help, doesn't seem that high tech, just an understanding of the difficulty in attacking defended convoys.
 

Deleted member 1487

Instead of the V2, create a surface to air missile, up to 50,000 feet. It would be un-aimed of course, but against dense bomber formations, might work more effective than flak.
You mean the Taifun missile. The US tried to develop it post war and ran into problems, being unable to get it to work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki_(rocket)
The US Army had initially studied the Taifun in 1946, and the German engineers now working for the Army were convinced the concept deserved more development.[1] When similar concerns about the development time of their own guided missile projects were raised, the Taifun was reconsidered and a development program started at Bendix in 1948. One major change was to replace the warhead area with a dart-like version, which was separated from the main rocket body at engine burnout to continue on without the drag of the airframe and thereby reach higher altitudes.

Like the Germans before them, Bendix had significant problems with the engine, and eventually decided to develop a solid-fuel engine based on a new elastomeric fuel from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), starting in March 1951. The first flight of a solid-fuel Loki occurred on 22 June 1951.[2] The new engine was successful, and the liquid engine was abandoned in February 1952.

An initial meeting on Jun 25 1954 at the Redstone Arsenal of Dr. Wernher von Braun, Frederick C. Durant III, Alexander Satin, David Young, Dr. Fred L. Whipple, Dr. S. Fred Singer, and Commander George W. Hoover resulted in an agreement that a Redstone rocket with a Loki cluster as the second stage could launch a satellite into a 200-mile orbit without major new developments.[3]

JPL eventually fired 3,544 Lokis at White Sands during the testing program. These tests demonstrated that the launch of one rocket would affect the flight path of the ones behind it, making the dispersion too large to be a useful weapon.[4] Although this problem was studied in depth, it appeared there was no obvious solution. The Army eventually gave up on Loki in September 1955, in favour of the Nike-Ajax missile, which had recently reached operational status, and the MIM-23 Hawk which was expected to be available shortly.[5]
 
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