Nazis develop/mass produce Wunderwaffes early, not destroyed/captured or War is longer in Nazi Favor

No. The so-called Wonder Weapons were impractical or simply junk. Often both.

You want a war-winning Wonder Weapon? Well one side developed it, but it wasn’t Axis. That weapon was a small can of instant sunshine. And even if the Nazis got their projects working the Atomic Bomb trumps them all.
The Wunderwaffe had plenty of tech that could weaken the allies
 
The Wunderwaffe had plenty of tech that could weaken the allies

And the allies had tech that could cripple a city in a single stroke. The Germans didn't have that. They had Night Vision which the Allies weren't far behind. They had assault rifles which while nice is never a war winner. Jets which again allies are not far behind them and then the V series of weapons. 1 was okay 2 was useless 3 is why the f*** did you build it and that's about it
 
The Wunderwaffe had plenty of tech that could weaken the allies

Like what?

Their tanks weren't better than the Allies in a significant way, the V-2 cost as much as the Manhattan Project only it killed average of one person per launch, the Me-262 was made with such poor materials it could only fly 12 HOURS before the engine had to be replaced, the V-1 was nice but the Allies had the extra aircraft and pilots to stop them AND maintain air supremacy, the Horton Flying Wing was a deathtrap, the Maus was a target for Allied aircraft and nothing more, etc.

The Wunderwaffe were universally either bad ideas, or so impractical they might as well have been.
 
And the allies had tech that could cripple a city in a single stroke. The Germans didn't have that. They had Night Vision which the Allies weren't far behind. They had assault rifles which while nice is never a war winner. Jets which again allies are not far behind them and then the V series of weapons. 1 was okay 2 was useless 3 is why the f*** did you build it and that's about it
The Horten Ho 229 was probably one of the best wunderwaffes, they were too fast for British radars, the British Civillians only had 4 minutes at most to prepare. Also the Arados, Messerschmitt, Aggregats, Fritz X, and all the Hortens were some of the best Wunderwaffes
 
The Horten Ho 229 was probably one of the best wunderwaffes, they were too fast for British radars, the British Civillians only had 4 minutes at most to prepare. Also the Arados, Messerschmitt, Aggregats, Fritz X, and all the Hortens were some of the best Wunderwaffes
The stealth claims about the Ho229 are highly dubious (as in the charcoal material claimed to act as primitive RAM were not detected on the surviving airframe), and the 'best case' claim was a 20% reduction in detection range against relatively long wavelength (low frequency) Chain Home Low system, the allies also had the tech to produce centimeter wavelength radars (extensively deployed for surface search), at those scales the radar returns from the turbine blades and similar become an issue.

Claimed top speed is impressively high for the era, but no evidence of tests getting near that... besides there's issues with the lifespan of the Jumo turbojet running at anything near full power.

That's before we get onto the whole host of issues with flying wing designs before fly-by-wire control systems.
 
The Horten Ho 229 was probably one of the best wunderwaffes, they were too fast for British radars, the British Civillians only had 4 minutes at most to prepare. Also the Arados, Messerschmitt, Aggregats, Fritz X, and all the Hortens were some of the best Wunderwaffes
The Horten was a death trap for anyone trying to fly it. Flying wings are not stable. The only reason modern versions work is due to tech that isn’t available.
 
I’m not sure the V-1 did tie down more Allied resources to contain the weapon than the Germans used developing it. It’s possible but in relative terms the Germans had less to work with whilst the Allies had assets to spare.

Every US 90mm and UK 3.7 banging away at V-1s in the SE England is better than having those crews released for duties in Continental Europe from a German standpoint
 
Every US 90mm and UK 3.7 banging away at V-1s in the SE England is better than having those crews released for duties in Continental Europe from a German standpoint

Fighting the nonexistent Luftwaffe? Or just not being used as improv arty which the allies already have a lot of
 
Fighting the nonexistent Luftwaffe? Or just not being used as improv arty which the allies already have a lot of

Not even the US had bottomless reserves of manpower. Best to have them where they have the most effect.

But you can never have too much Arty on call. US 90s were very mobile
 
Not even the US had bottomless reserves of manpower. Best to have them where they have the most effect.

But you can never have too much Arty on call. US 90s were very mobile

The question is, at what point is it better to leave men behind in to lighten the logistical footprint? Too many guns at the front won't help much if the same amount of shells, food, and fuel are arriving.
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
If you can't get more than sixty Me262s into combat in one go, to face over a thousand B-17s, B-24s and P-51s, no technology is going to avert defeat.

Not even a working nuke.

As German flak volunteers were told in 1945.
"If you see a silver plane, it's American. If you see a black plane, its British - if you don't see any aeroplanes, its the Luftwaffe"
 
If you can't get more than sixty Me262s into combat in one go, to face over a thousand B-17s, B-24s and P-51s, no technology is going to avert defeat.

Not even a working nuke.

As German flak volunteers were told in 1945.
"If you see a silver plane, it's American. If you see a black plane, its British - if you don't see any aeroplanes, its the Luftwaffe"

Yes but the OP asks if wunderwaffen tech could make a difference if it was brought in earlier, IE 1942, not 1945 ? That implies the 1945 situation should be different, for one thing the JU-004B life expectancy was 35 hours each- based on a stable supply chain. In 1942/43 they had a stable supply chain plus adequate supply of fuel and adequately trained pilots.
 

MrP

Banned
As others have pointed out, those overhyped Wunderwaffen hogged a lot of resources in their development and production, in the case of the V-2 to a ludicrous extent. This raises the obvious issue of opportunity costs: even assuming that they are somehow available three years earlier, producing them will eat up supplies and man-hours that would otherwise have been spent on less glamorous but more useful weapons. How many fewer tanks, trucks, submarines, fighters, etc., will Germany have from 1942 on so that it can build shiny rockets?
 
As others have pointed out, those overhyped Wunderwaffen hogged a lot of resources in their development and production, in the case of the V-2 to a ludicrous extent. This raises the obvious issue of opportunity costs: even assuming that they are somehow available three years earlier, producing them will eat up supplies and man-hours that would otherwise have been spent on less glamorous but more useful weapons. How many fewer tanks, trucks, submarines, fighters, etc., will Germany have from 1942 on so that it can build shiny rockets?


Yeah but to answer that question you need to show how these industries are transferable. No one has done that so far as I have read....unless you have another source?
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
In 1942/43 they had a stable supply chain plus adequate supply of fuel and adequately trained pilots.

The Nazis were already having Zulieferungskrise (sub-components crises) by 1943 - largely due to RAF night bombing.

The Me262, Ar234, FZG-76, V-2 rocket, Jagdpanther, Königstiger, arriving any sooner than they did is ASB, and always has been.

The Nazis had a load of perfectly serviceable kit they could have got into action a lot sooner, the Fw190C/D, Ju88B, Panzer IV Ausf G, but they are just not sexy enough.
 
The Nazis were already having Zulieferungskrise (sub-components crises) by 1943 - largely due to RAF night bombing.

The Me262, Ar234, FZG-76, V-2 rocket, Jagdpanther, Königstiger, arriving any sooner than they did is ASB, and always has been.

The Nazis had a load of perfectly serviceable kit they could have got into action a lot sooner, the Fw190C/D, Ju88B, Panzer IV Ausf G, but they are just not sexy enough.


Yes that's why I said "adequate" and not a "great" supply.

Yes there were fluctuations , but that SEEMED normal for their industries through out the war. As long as there was a steady increase in output through out the mid war period ; they seemed to survive well enough. The final corner was not turned until 1944 with the USA strategic bombing campaign crippled the Nazi economy by air while Russians destroyed the Wehrmacht in the east.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Ruhr

BTW how on earth are you going to get the Fw190C into action any sooner??? Everything I've read reported great difficulty . Was there any mentioning of resources/funding/labor that was instead diverted into these so called ABS programs?
 
Yeah but to answer that question you need to show how these industries are transferable. No one has done that so far as I have read....unless you have another source?
Each V-2 required about 30 tonnes of food to be converted to fuel on launch, and the project cost more than the Manhattan Project, AND killed more people working on it than actual targets (not that that last one was a problem for the Nazis.)

If you had a giant pit dug, dumped in one BILLION Reichsmarks, and one hundred million pounds of food, then drenched it in 50 million pounds of food converted into fuel and then lit the whole damn thing on fire you would still not have used up as much resources as the ACTUAL project did. And this isn't even getting into the scientists involved who would have been more productive doing almost literally ANYTHING else, and not killed 12,000 of your own people.

All of this from a vastly smaller resource pool than the Allies had. To think that these resources couldn't be used more productively is insensible to the point of nonsense.
 
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