Nazis build SAM defenses - Allied Air Offensive stopped by early 1944

AdA said:
VTOUL aircraft (Vertical take off unlikely landing)
LOL:D:D
wiking said:
I'd say the Atlantic wall was too expensive for the effect.
Given the constraints it placed on the Allies, I'd disagree.
wiking said:
Building up Flak Towers all over Germany from July 1943 (Hamburg firestorm) instead of all of the bomber projects and jet fighters beside the Me262 and all of the underground factories was totally logical. Hell, canceling the wasteful V2 in favor of building of FLAK defenses
Agreed on both points.
wiking said:
Hitler's pathological need to retaliate took over
It looks like it, but there's a solid basis in reason, actually. Politically, Hitler needed to do 2 things: defend, & strike back. Otherwise, he risked revolution.:eek: (That the WAllies never made more use of propaganda to undermine the Nazis, rather than simply bouncing rubble,:rolleyes: is a persistent mystery to me...:confused::confused:)
wiking said:
The V1 was a perfectly cost effective way of retaliating and should have been the only method used.
Agree entirely. Improvement of its accuracy would have paid very substantial dividends, too.

Aside: was it impossible for U-boats to use V-1s against convoys?
 

Deleted member 1487

Given the constraints it placed on the Allies, I'd disagree.
Agree to disagree. They could really only attack in a couple places there were pretty fortified anyway.

It looks like it, but there's a solid basis in reason, actually. Politically, Hitler needed to do 2 things: defend, & strike back. Otherwise, he risked revolution.:eek: (That the WAllies never made more use of propaganda to undermine the Nazis, rather than simply bouncing rubble,:rolleyes: is a persistent mystery to me...:confused::confused:)
Revolution in a police state??? If anything he should have made up stories about bombing Britain. Besides, wouldn't more shot down bombers have been just as effective?

Aside: was it impossible for U-boats to use V-1s against convoys?
Way too inaccurate and the Uboat was an awful platform considering the launch requirements.
 

Rubicon

Banned
Way too inaccurate and the Uboat was an awful platform considering the launch requirements.
Sounds like that nutball that posted here two years ago (or something like that) and wanted Japan to build up it's fleet in Indonesia after Midway (I think) and launch V1's against US carriers....

... best thread ever! :cool:
 
Sounds like that nutball that posted here two years ago (or something like that) and wanted Japan to build up it's fleet in Indonesia after Midway (I think) and launch V1's against US carriers....

... best thread ever! :cool:

That sounds like a good idea, except for the part where reality.
 
wiking said:
Perhaps we should write a short TL about the effect of a prioritized air defense of Germany and extra Flak Towers in major target areas?

cortz#9 said:
If You Guys write it I'll Read it!
Count me in, too.
wiking said:
Revolution in a police state???
May've been a bit strong. Even so, he did seem sensitive to public opinion.
wiking said:
wouldn't more shot down bombers have been just as effective?
Actually, no. Don't ask me why, but it takes both.
wiking said:
Way too inaccurate and the Uboat was an awful platform considering the launch requirements.
Noted. Just seems like a good idea (tho maybe I'm thinking of Regulus too much:eek:).
 

NothingNow

Banned
Most are still going to miss, leaving the Germans bombing their own cities when the stuff comes down. At least flak explodes before it comes down (mostly).

If you were going to use them for opening up formations you'd have to have timers anyway, and they wouldn't be hard to include in a design. Not much more than the eight or so regular detonators, or anything else in the design.
 
If you were going to use them for opening up formations you'd have to have timers anyway, and they wouldn't be hard to include in a design. Not much more than the eight or so regular detonators, or anything else in the design.

Yes, as long as the timers are reliable, which shouldn't be hard to accomplish, then that should be a work-around. In the post to which I was responding, you specified "cheap contact fuses," which would have been an issue.
 
Yes, as long as the timers are reliable, which shouldn't be hard to accomplish, then that should be a work-around. In the post to which I was responding, you specified "cheap contact fuses," which would have been an issue.


Time fuses are reliable. even AA shels with contact fuses would also have time fuses to make sure they detonated in fight if they failed to strike anything. The problem would be with the rockets. If the rockets failed to reach detonation altitude/expected flight time, and fell short, the "mines" would become bombs.
 

sharlin

Banned
Thing is re flak towers is that to build them cost an arseload of cash, and they sucked up men and resources the germans really didn't have, yes they were impressive modern fortresses but they are also very much a Nazi thing, a huge, not very effective but darn impressive thing that was also rather hard to destroy.
 
Thing is re flak towers is that to build them cost an arseload of cash, and they sucked up men and resources the germans really didn't have, yes they were impressive modern fortresses but they are also very much a Nazi thing, a huge, not very effective but darn impressive thing that was also rather hard to destroy.

They were also airshelters. Not building them mean people must crowd the subway or be exposed. The Air raid shelter functions alone would validate the cost.
And bulding an impressive hard to destroy traget that shows up nicely on recce photos is a great way to tempt bombers into attacking it. Take the UBoat pens. Heavily protected, they cost the RAF a lot of Bombers for little return.
A few towers can be bypassed. a lot of them protecting vital targets would create its own small airwar.
 

sharlin

Banned
But the cost will bite deep, germany does not have an infinite gold cheat and if it built multiple flak towers on the scale of those built in OTL WW2 and in large numbers, more than the handful built then that cash is going to have to come from somewhere and considering that the various ministaries of the Nazi's got on like Propane, nitro and fire if the Luftwaffe started getting more funding the other arms would probably object as their funding was cut to build massive concrete fortresses that only became useful after 1943.
 
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