Nazi victory: How many Slavs would undergo Germanization?

Deleted member 97083

That part of the plan would probably fail. The German settlers + Scandinavian/Dutch/Belgian/French/Czech forced settlers who are sent to Eastern Europe, would probably discriminate against even the "Germanized" Slavs and view them with derision.

Any slight accent in German would probably induce hate from the Nazis.

They couldn't be Germanized because they wouldn't be accepted into the new community that hates them.
 
More than we'd think but less than we'd hope.

Their regime was insane. I think they'd make all kinds of compromises like that as they struggled to survive, even as they committed atrocities down the road.
 
In Hand book of the "Little Annoying Austrian", he gabble about this:
That the surviving 10% of the slave, now "slave for the reich" will be forces to learn basic german to understand the orders given by there Aryan overlords, if not they died...
 
Come on, Friedrich von Hayek may have led to fallacious systems of economics, but don't compare him to Hitler.

Nein, nein, nein, Friedrich von Hayek was the major social theorist and political philosopher of the twentieth century. A Giant compare to "Little Annoying Austrian" also in body size...
 
They discriminated agains the Sudetenland Germans as well due to their accent. Heck, Himmler found that Bohemia-Moravia had a higher portion of 'racially valuable' elements than the Sudetenland. And keep in mind that the Slavic children seized were sent to Germany and the adopting parents not told the truth about them. Some were disgusted when they found out (because they didn't want some subhuman Pole as their child) while others protected them, like when the Nazis tried to take back a child when they found her birth mother suffered from epilepsy). Also, a lot of the settlement in the East would be involuntary. The population of Alsace-Lorraine were not fervently Nazi and they decided after the war to send them, as with other politically unreliable 'Germans' to the East to be swallowed up by other groups. Hitler wanted all the settlements (not sure if it meant provinces or towns) as being German (Deutsch?) majority. I see the Germans conscripting Ewstern Europeans to settle in the East bit by bit, and that they, mingling with Scandinavians, Germans sent out of South Tyrol, Transylvania, Bukovia, Banat, etc woudl help disguise accents, especially given the amount of Germans from the Reich who would come over with their own accents.
 
I think that generally speaking there are too many moving parts in this for anyone to give an easy, simple prediction, without knowing how and why the Nazis won, etc, etc. What ever the Nazi leaders planned to do does give us some inkling of what they would have wanted to happen, in a dark, twisted ideal scenario, but then the objective reality would have intervened in a plethora of ways to influence what the real outcome of their plans would have been. Like it did IOTL.

On the other hand, I think that if one asks such a question, with the qualifiers "Nazis won the war and ruled Europe up to the Urals", "Germanization", "exterminated" and "Generalplan Ost", one has already decided the range of damage, though, which would be somewhere from between horrible and hellish. In that case, one could just make up numbers for an inventive worst case scenario ("70% exterminated, 20% neutered and lobotomized for a disposable slave underclass, 10% Germanized").

The realism of the whole scenario is another matter entirely - what you are in essence asking is "in this hugely unrealistic scenario, how would this particular theoretical process realistically pan out?". In other words, it is a scenario and a question that is already seriously undermined by its premise.
 
I think that generally speaking there are too many moving parts in this for anyone to give an easy, simple prediction, without knowing how and why the Nazis won, etc, etc. What ever the Nazi leaders planned to do does give us some inkling of what they would have wanted to happen, in a dark, twisted ideal scenario, but then the objective reality would have intervened in a plethora of ways to influence what the real outcome of their plans would have been. Like it did IOTL.

On the other hand, I think that if one asks such a question, with the qualifiers "Nazis won the war and ruled Europe up to the Urals", "Germanization", "exterminated" and "Generalplan Ost", one has already decided the range of damage, though, which would be somewhere from between horrible and hellish. In that case, one could just make up numbers for an inventive worst case scenario ("70% exterminated, 20% neutered and lobotomized for a disposable slave underclass, 10% Germanized").

The realism of the whole scenario is another matter entirely - what you are in essence asking is "in this hugely unrealistic scenario, how would this particular theoretical process realistically pan out?". In other words, it is a scenario and a question that is already seriously undermined by its premise.

Your absolutely right !

Even the SS-plans for "Endlosung" under "Generalplan Ost" were totally insane, actually they want to exterminate all Jews and 80% of East Europan, follow by Extermination of all "half-blood" of East Europan or jewish descent in Europe.
The SS even went so far to give orders in 1944, to companies to design new ways to exterminate people faster and more effective with lower cost. they planned to use the new system in 1946, speaking of a hugely unrealistic scenario...
With two exception the Bohemia-Moravia (Himmler) and Small jewish community in Prag (Gobbles)
So insane it sound, but Himmler wanted a "vivarium" of East Europans, while Gobbles thought in line of Human Zoo, both for public exhibitions of humans.

Now some issue i have personally
in this Forum the "Generalplan Ost" pop up regularly, and sometimes too much "enthusiasm" about question how it would succeed if NAZI had won.
There is no "enthusiasm" in Mass extinction of 65 million to 120 million Humans, who have there right to live just like you and me.
 
What can I say for sure,Germans where less fanatical about their racial plans in Balkans.I even remembered they made deal to create Partisan state to calm down Tito's partisans.
 
One hundred million Russians weren't going to obediently march to their deaths. Had Germany somehow conquered European Russia it would likely have "bitten off more than it could chew." Realpolitik would have necessitated some modus vivendi with the Russians, although the Jews probably wouldn't have been so lucky.
 

Loghain

Banned
Your absolutely right !

Even the SS-plans for "Endlosung" under "Generalplan Ost" were totally insane, actually they want to exterminate all Jews and 80% of East Europan, follow by Extermination of all "half-blood" of East Europan or jewish descent in Europe.
The SS even went so far to give orders in 1944, to companies to design new ways to exterminate people faster and more effective with lower cost. they planned to use the new system in 1946, speaking of a hugely unrealistic scenario...
With two exception the Bohemia-Moravia (Himmler) and Small jewish community in Prag (Gobbles)
So insane it sound, but Himmler wanted a "vivarium" of East Europans, while Gobbles thought in line of Human Zoo, both for public exhibitions of humans.

Now some issue i have personally
in this Forum the "Generalplan Ost" pop up regularly, and sometimes too much "enthusiasm" about question how it would succeed if NAZI had won.
There is no "enthusiasm" in Mass extinction of 65 million to 120 million Humans, who have there right to live just like you and me.

No part of history should be forbiden.
If we dont learn the we repeat.
 
So insane it sound, but Himmler wanted a "vivarium" of East Europans, while Gobbles thought in line of Human Zoo, both for public exhibitions of humans.
I can't find a source for this anywhere online. The only place I found discussion concerning Himmler and a human zoo was in a historical fiction book.
 
I can't find a source for this anywhere online. The only place I found discussion concerning Himmler and a human zoo was in a historical fiction book.
Might be from some offhand writings. Perhaps it is refering to the ideas of a reservation for 'pure' Gypsies and museums of dead races? Though that one was for Jews... I can see some Germans liking the idea of a Wild Bill's style show, though that seems more likely with actual Native Americans/Mexicans/Etc in the U.S. for some crazy invasion and partition by the Germans and Japanese. Arizona would be a prime area for it... Keeping Slavs as zoo animals seems tasteless though. And I doubt mean as an 'understatement' sort of way, but that the German public wouldn't go for it, while the Race offices would think it was glorifying Slavs or bringing bad blood into the Reich.
 
Honestly? Any realistic scenerio where the Nazis win means they won't have the resources for a hellscape. Most Balts and western Ukrainians will be Germanized. Russians and Belarussians won't be. In short, if you play ball you get Germanized if you don't you die.
 
Honestly? Any realistic scenerio where the Nazis win means they won't have the resources for a hellscape. Most Balts and western Ukrainians will be Germanized. Russians and Belarussians won't be. In short, if you play ball you get Germanized if you don't you die.
Working People to Death was part of the plans so there would be more food for Germans and loads of free labor. Hopefully someone would take notes on how well things went in Transnistria due to use of the Romanian occupiers of the the innovative concept of not massacring everyone. Might have went even better if the Romanians occupied the area up to the Dnieper, as the Nazis apparently suggested. Antonescu declined due to not having the manpower to occupy it and wasn't thrilled about suggestions to take land in Ukraine to make up for lost land in Transylvania, so might have seen a mass repopulation of the area With Romanians if the Germans decided the Hungarians should get the rest of Transylvania. Unikely though. anyways, the Romanians didnt' take the land partially because they would be expected to do all the policing and administering, while all Resources went to the Germans. If it did og Down though, perhaps the Germans would decide it was a decent Method of going things and leave portions of the interior to Ukranians, as they focused on colonizing Gotenland.

Also, the Germans thought the Croats wwere very Germanizable. They liked their Moxy, and agreed With the Ustashe that they were desdenced from the Goths who used to occupy the area.
 

Fenestella

Banned
Maybe not half as bad as under the Tatar Yoke.
70% of the population in the Crimean Khanate were Slavic slaves: picture the Auschwitzish+gulagish horror lasting for generations.
 
That part of the plan would probably fail. The German settlers + Scandinavian/Dutch/Belgian/French/Czech forced settlers who are sent to Eastern Europe, would probably discriminate against even the "Germanized" Slavs and view them with derision.

Any slight accent in German would probably induce hate from the Nazis.

They couldn't be Germanized because they wouldn't be accepted into the new community that hates them.

Perhaps, but I don't see that attitude persisting for as long as one might expect the descendants of that small number of lucky people to be allowed to integrate in this way provided they shed accents and any other identifiers (and the incentive to do so would obviously be high). There were already a significant number of Germans with Slavic ancestry and last names so it would not be an unusual thing, and that's assuming they don't change or heavily Germanize the last name beyond its spelling. Some were descended from long Germanized West Slavs (and were generally more common in Eastern areas) while others were descended from later immigrating Poles, particularly to the Ruhr region. These people seem to have pretty seamlessly blended in even in Nazi Germany and many were quite prominent. After all, Hitler's personal chauffeur was of Polish descent.
 
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