Nazi succession if Hitler dies of natural causes in early 1943?

Quick question to throw out to more learned AH.com folks: if Hitler had died in early February 1943 of natural causes - say due to a rage-induced stroke or brain haemorrhage after being informed of the 6th Army's surrender in Stalingrad - what are the immediate political ramifications in Nazi Germany? Would there be an orderly transfer of power to Goering, an attempted seizure of power by Himmler and the SS, a Guderian dictatorship backed by Speer, a coup by a junta of Wehrmacht generals, collegial government by the remaining senior Nazis, or some other combination? A brief civil war with all the elements above coming into play?

Also, how would news of Hitler's death be received on the international stage, both by the Allies, neutrals, and other Axis powers?

Thanks in advance for all and any feedback.
 

RousseauX

Donor
A theoretical triumvarite between the party, the state, and the army, represented by Bormann, Goering, and Keitel.

In reality the Reich fractures completely into the quasi-independent fiefdoms without Hitler holding it all together. The OKH does it's best to hold the eastern front, the OKW the west. Both are probably going to start negotiating with Himmler and Speer (if he still gets his OTL position somehow, which is unlikely) to secure war production to the front -they- know is important. Goebbels might be able to use his propaganda ministry to at sweep it under the carpet in the eyes of the German people and is almost certainly going to be a vital player.

At some point someone might try to a coup for absolute power, either from the SS or the army. But frankly that's not going to work. If the SS does it the army probably hates them enough to shoot them, if the army does it...well I'm actually of the opinion half the generals would probably launch a counter-coup to have him shot since the Wehrmacht generals hated each other too.

Every armed forces service branch starts to try to grab as much resources as possible, same with civilian ministries, Nazi Germany starts to look like a modern feudal state with the SS controlled factories making production for the SS, the Gaultier in charge of Bavaria friendly enough to the OKH to ship tanks made in Munich to them while the state ministry of Bavaria manage to get -its- hands on another factory manufacturing ammunition and ship all -those- to the OKW because the guy in charge of that ministry likes Rundstedt over Manstein.

If someone actually has really good knowledge about the politics of Nazi Germany ~1943 it would be a fascinating TL to read about, but that that knowledge seems to be lacking.
 
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b12ox

Banned
Georing was chedued to take over in case of Hitler's death but it would have been up to Goebbels to make sure things don't get out of hand. They both didn't like each other and were not close enough to cooperate the way Hitler did with all of them and the rest of the Nazi top brass, so here the first problem; lack of trust, indifrence. Hitler bound everything together on personal level. others apart from being close to Hilter had nothing in common with one another. They knew themselves from dinnners and political rallies but other than that they were aliens.
 
It was Hitler's practice to give two people the same job and then let them fight it out between them. One can imagine the results. Without the fuehrerprinzip (spelling?) the whole rotten edifice comes down fast. Probably a coup from the German Underground to coincide with D-Day.
 

b12ox

Banned
and on top of that he was a semi god. Through the countless rallies and heils, heils,heils they came to beileve they were the shit and Hitler was the Grand Visier. In 1943 when things got rough it was needed to hold on, the whole Will Power stuff they had been building for 10 years hinged on Hitler. But one can counter that even without Hitler the cult was ripe enough to hold on its own to prevent surrender until the allies are in Berlin.
 
If someone actually has really good knowledge about the politics of Nazi Germany ~1943 it would be a fascinating TL to read about, but that that knowledge seems to be lacking.

Agreed, it seems to me to be an under-utilized period for a "Hitler dies" scenario - we get a few of those based on PODs during the period of Germany's relative military ascendancy in 1939-1942 and a whole bunch using Valkyrie-type PODs in 1944 onwards, but 1943 (particularly early 1943) divergences much less so.
 
You're going to need a leader, at least as a figurehead. Best idea is to look at what Hitler did in 1945 in his will where he split the Fuhrerdom out again, with the presidency and the chancellorship going to different people. Thus I could see Goering getting the figurehead position as President (many would call him Fuhrer simply because they're used to it) but Goebbels probably getting the Chancellorship and running it more collegiately.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

RousseauX

Donor
and on top of that he was a semi god. Through the countless rallies and heils, heils,heils they came to beileve they were the shit and Hitler was the Grand Visier. In 1943 when things got rough it was needed to hold on, the whole Will Power stuff they had been building for 10 years hinged on Hitler. But one can counter that even without Hitler the cult was ripe enough to hold on its own to prevent surrender until the allies are in Berlin.
Hitler rarely appeared in public by that point I think, the face of the Reich to the German people was Goebbels
 
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