Nazi Secret Weapons - Peenemünde Army Research Center

At work.

They weren't infantry support tanks, they were Pz III support tanks for panzer divisions; they did not fight as part of infantry divisions and only supported panzergrenadiers on a limited basis as part of a kampfgruppe.


Turbines are way too fuel hungry; the Russians even moved away from them in the 1990s as they were too expensive to operate despite the speed advantages. That's with modern turbines that are even less fuel hungry than the first generation WW2 designs.


Thanks for the clarification on the Pz III etc.

As for turbines being thursty.... sure.

But you can feed a turhine anything airosol ignitable. Turpentine, ethanol, deisel. Just change/adjust the flame holders.

I've read the Americans are looking to move away from turbines simply for cheaper logistics. *Shrug*

My point was that turbines, even in the time period, offer better power to weight than material expensive copper deisel-electrics.

When everything is fuel? No distance matters. :p

(Said totally tongue in cheek)
 
At work.

I remember reading somewhere that Speer attempted to try and get Germany a “main battle tank” with a primary role. They tried the Panther but it was considered a medium and Hitler wanted a tank with armour and a ‘real’ gun. I know Hitler rushed something to be made and the Tiger I was created and then they created the tiger II which just had sloped armour.

I don’t see any problem with advanced analysis on tank designs. The tiger I and the tiger P are designed and one of each are produced and compared with one another. At this point one thinks let’s produce one, which the Nazi’s did. (Tiger I) However if they had continued to develop both tank designs and produce one tank for the remainder of the war then they would have pooled all of thier resources into one tank rather than wasting resources on producing the Tiger I, which they believed was going to be obsolete in a couple of years anyway.

Porsche or someone must have known that the Tiger I and Tiger P was a mental block/rectangle with some tracks, a turret and a gun. And that further development would have made the Germans superior on the battlefield for the 5 years.

In essence what I am saying is the Germans should of known they were onto something which would have given them tactical superiority on the battlefield. Then they should have taken the time to design it properly.

In regards to Porsche’s advanced engine design, I think he was naive to base his tank design on it. Especially since it was unproven, it should have been his pet project until it worked in 1944, then the Wehrmacht will accept it.

Just a note on Proff Porsche idea.

The system did, in fact, work. Had been utilized very successfully on artillery tractors in WW I. Which is why he returned to such a system with his P Tiger.

From some reading across the interwebz. The reason for Porsche poor showing on the day. (Of note is that the two machines presented. Porsche's hull was transported via Porshe custom built Tank mover from the factory without incident)

The electric engines that supplied power to the final drive motors wers supplied by an out sourced company.

It was some one else's sub-par gear that laid Porsche low. :p
 
A box has the most useful, or efficient/accessible shape to store military equipment in. sloped armor has space that isn't able to store gear and equipment as well. Fuel tanks are about the only item that can be really fit into those angled space spaces, with the caveat that where the armor is sloped, the front part of the tank, that's where the crew is. Not the best place for fuel.

Yes and explains the shapes of early war tanks such as the Pz I through V.

You'll note that some French deisgns had already incorporated sloped plates. Though, in general, they were boxes on treads as well.

It would seem that sloping armor out wieghs the consequenses since it's the dominant form of armor up to and including the present day. Though, admitedly, now mainly seeming on the front plates.

Cheers.
 
This is a really important piece of information: “Unlike the panther tank, the designs did not incorporate sloped armour, an innovation taken from the T-34.” (Referring to Tiger I)

So they already knew about sloped armour because they had a captured T-34 tank and developed the Panther. So why design and build Tiger I when it was already inferior. It should have only been a design stage or rough sketch.

I see all this as a result of Hitler’s willing for his subordinates to fight with each other and his own delusions regarding the practical and effectiveness of weapons on the battlefield.

What you need is people like Speer, Guderian, Porsche and Werner Von Blomberg, maybe Rommel, preferably a general on the Eastern front to all have some kind of influence in the design process. (I say Blomberg because he had the strategic position to decide the design and production of tanks.)
 
Yes and explains the shapes of early war tanks such as the Pz I through V.

You'll note that some French deisgns had already incorporated sloped plates. Though, in general, they were boxes on treads as well.

It would seem that sloping armor out wieghs the consequenses since it's the dominant form of armor up to and including the present day. Though, admitedly, now mainly seeming on the front plates.

Though the Leo II isn't all that sloped for certain models
Leopard-2-Tank-A0.jpg

_96257868_armatatankt14afp9may17.jpg

and the very latest Russian Tank, with all the crew in the Hull, much of that look is from ERA Blocks
 
So they already knew about sloped armour because they had a captured T-34 tank and developed the Panther. So why design and build Tiger I when it was already inferior. It should have only been a design stage or rough sketch.
Unlike the T-34, the Germans used front drive in the tanks.
Panther had the problem of no access doors to get at the brakes, final drives and transaxle

So what was a couple hour maintenance job on a Mk IV or Tiger, the Panther, the turret and armor above the driver had to be removed before access to those bits were enabled. It's now an all day job

Sherman was the fastest, with the front housing that could be unbolted, while still providing some slope
Sherman-transmission.jpg
 
Unlike the T-34, the Germans used front drive in the tanks.
Panther had the problem of no access doors to get at the brakes, final drives and transaxle

So what was a couple hour maintenance job on a Mk IV or Tiger, the Panther, the turret and armor above the driver had to be removed before access to those bits were enabled. It's now an all day job

Sherman was the fastest, with the front housing that could be unbolted, while still providing some slope
Sherman-transmission.jpg

How did the Tiger II fare in relation to the Tiger I because that had sloped armour. The VK 45.02 A was similar but I don’t know how it relates to Tiger I and II.

If they were able to build the panther when they did, the question is would they have been able to design and build the VK. 45.02/Tiger II A at the same time.
 
How did the Tiger II fare in relation to the Tiger I because that had sloped armour. The VK 45.02 A was similar but I don’t know how it relates to Tiger I and II.

If they were able to build the panther when they did, the question is would they have been able to design and build the VK. 45.02/Tiger II A at the same time.
8da0ad068755aee19acb12a7f292de28_92428.jpg
Unlike the Panther, the K.T. hull was large enough for the upper access panel to allow the guts to be puled out without turret removal
 
Though the Leo II isn't all that sloped for certain models
Leopard-2-Tank-A0.jpg
It only looks like it's not sloped, behind the thin plate of metal you see is the NERA armor scheme, lots of smaller, interlocked plates of different materials, very sloped. Today only part of the protection derives from the old concept of sloped armor, that a sloped plate has more material to travel through for the impacting projectile. Today you also have different hardness of steel to shatter the projectile, air gaps for the super heated stream of metal from a HEAT warhead to disperse, interlocking metal plates to distribute the kinetic energy of a sabot round over the whole armor side etc.

Something like this.
Chobham%2BType%2B2.png
 
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