Nazi leadership destroyed fall of 1939

A bomb was planted and went off in October /November 39. It was planned to hit the celebration of the Beer Hall Putch but unfortunately plans had been changed and the places was pretty empty when the bomb went off.

WI either the bomb had been sent an hour earlier or Hitler and his top guys had stuck to their original plan.


Who would be Germany's new leadership?

Would they have offered tolerable terms to the West?


The deal I am imagining goes something like

1) Germany withdraws from Czechoslovkia except German areas

2) USSR gets ultimatum to withdraw from their part of Poland.

3) Germany withdraws from their half of Poland.

4) Poland gets to use Port facilities in Danzig but its status is changed to be mroe German.

5) Something nasty is done to surviving top Nazis.
 
Why would any leader, who would face a hard fight for his legitimacy within the party, give up all these lucrative and glorious conquests when the military is fairly confident that France & Britain can, at the very least, be held off?
 
Who would be Germany's new leadership?

Due to the fact that most of the civil leadership is either arrested in KZ's or killed in the explosion it would be likely the Wehrmacht which takes over immediatly after the attempt. In the long term they would have formed a coaliton with industrials and conservatives like von Papen. In a few years their regime would look like Franco's - if they stay in power for so long of course.

Would they have offered tolerable terms to the West?

They would have tried to get a peace, yes. The fact that they can blame everything bad on Hitler and haven't yet violated the neutrality of any country will surley help. However they would demand a german sphere of influence in Eastern Europe and that will go strongly against the wishes of the France and England.

1) Germany withdraws from Czechoslovkia except German areas

That is both unlikely and useless. Unlikely because Czechoslovakia contained some important industries. Useless because without the Sudetenland Czechoslovakia will be completly defenseless against Germany, i.e. it will remain a German puppet even without troops present.

2) USSR gets ultimatum to withdraw from their part of Poland.

This is again very unlikely because if the Soviet Union refuses, it will be Germany who has to enforce the ultimatum i.e. go to war. And the Germans wouldn't like to fight the war for France and Great Britain.

3) Germany withdraws from their half of Poland.

No government of Germany will renounce their claims on the corridor and Posen and Upper silesia. The new government would agree on the creation of a independent Poland based on congress Poland (and about as independant as Slovakia was) but not more.

5) Something nasty is done to surviving top Nazis.

That will happen anyway and if only to secure the power of the government. They can't let the SS intact for example.
However they will have their own definition of Nazis which won't be the one of the western allies. For instance the Whermacht and the Industrials won't be viewed as Nazis.

Admiral Canaris said:
More precisely who dies, in addition to Hitler?

Well at the meeting virtually every important Nazi was present. Hitler Himmler, Ribbentrop, Göring and Goebbels. There were also several minor members like Hans Frank and Philippe Bouhler in the room.
As they would not only be next to a bomb but also have the ceiling falling on them there is a fair chance that all of them would die.
 
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With no Nazi leadership to start a war with Poland, the UK and France in 1939, what does Stalin do in the 40's, do we have no war with Germany from 1939 but war with the Soviet Union in the mid 40's......
 
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I wonder if the loss of the major Nazis would be enough to restore the Army as the major centre of German power. If so, they'll be much more cautious and conservative, not starting the war for at least a few years more. Otherwise, I think the Polish question will retain its importance; most of the leading military men were Prussian, after all.
 
With no Nazi leadership to start a war with Poland, the UK and France in 1939, what does Stalin do in the 40's, do we have no war with Germany from 1939 but war with the Soviet Union in the mid 40's......

I wonder if the loss of the major Nazis would be enough to restore the Army as the major centre of German power. If so, they'll be much more cautious and conservative, not starting the war for at least a few years more. Otherwise, I think the Polish question will retain its importance; most of the leading military men were Prussian, after all.

The war has already started. The attempt took place at the 8. November 1939. Hitler has invaded Poland two months earlier. However neither Fall Gelb nor Weserübung have happend so the war was only in Poland and in the west everything remained quiet.
 
The war has already started. The attempt took place at the 8. November 1939. Hitler has invaded Poland two months earlier. However neither Fall Gelb nor Weserübung have happend so the war was only in Poland and in the west everything remained quiet.

Um. Lazy reading of the premises.:eek:
 
BTW, I don't think so "Nazi leadership" was there. IIRC it was only Hitlers and "old believers". At least that's what I get from memoiries of Hitler's Aide-de-Camp. He would have probably made a mention if the likes of Goering, Himmler etc. were there.
 
Poland didn't need port facilities in Danzig. It has it's own port in Gdynia.
IIRC, in late 1930's around 40-45% of volume of Polish sea trade went through Gdańsk (Danzig) and 55-60% through Gdynia - so yes, port facilities in Gdańsk were pretty usefull to Poland...
 
BTW, I don't think so "Nazi leadership" was there. IIRC it was only Hitlers and "old believers". At least that's what I get from memoiries of Hitler's Aide-de-Camp. He would have probably made a mention if the likes of Goering, Himmler etc. were there.

I think your wrong the book "Georg Elser der Attentäter aus dem Volke" states that Hitler and several top-Nazi were present, namely Goebbels, Himmler, Göring and Ribbentrop. It also lists a number of minor Nazis.
 

Markus

Banned
Why would any leader, who would face a hard fight for his legitimacy within the party, give up all these lucrative and glorious conquests when the military is fairly confident that France & Britain can, at the very least, be held off?

But that was not conventional wisdom in 39. The german leadership knew they had to actually defeat France and the UK and do it fast, because the last war had shown who wins a long war. The problem was no one had an idea how to do this and most were convinced it could not be done at all.
 
I think your wrong the book "Georg Elser der Attentäter aus dem Volke" states that Hitler and several top-Nazi were present, namely Goebbels, Himmler, Göring and Ribbentrop. It also lists a number of minor Nazis.

Ouch, without those people the Nazi regime is crippled.
 
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