How would hist have been affected had the Nazis been led not by Adolf Hitler, as the physically 'unAryan'-like guy that he was, but another dude who more closely fitted the Nordic superman stereotype, such as a guy looking more like a Nazi hero a la Reinhard Heydrich or Erich Hartmann ? or would an ideal tall blond, blue-eyed, fair-skinned 'Aryan' superman as leader- assuming he had similar qualities to the 'Teutonic superman' listed- have been only a cosmetic change to the general scheme of things ?
Nazi Germany with more 'Aryan'-looking leader
- Thread starter Melvin Loh
- Start date
Proctol
Banned
Only if the blonde can speak as well as Hitler. Together with having Hitler's baritone voice - the result of scarring on his vocal chords due to gas in WW1. Hitler, an Austrian, had Genghis Khan type Mongolian blood in him, a legacy from when they conquered Austria, as can be seen from his physiognomy. Also his full head of undyed hair which he retained to his death, & Amolekite forelock.
Looks usually actually count for little eg Goebbels, the "Poison Dwar Runt" also held power largely due to his mellifluous, sarcastic voice & perfect command of German, which women found irresistible, despite him being only 4'6" and having a polio-induced club foot.
Looks usually actually count for little eg Goebbels, the "Poison Dwar Runt" also held power largely due to his mellifluous, sarcastic voice & perfect command of German, which women found irresistible, despite him being only 4'6" and having a polio-induced club foot.
Max Sinister
Banned
Well, the nazis always said it was polio, but I heard that he had it since his birth...
"Amolekite forelock"
Amolekite means "homicidal hater of Jews" (like Hitler, or the Old Testament character Haman), right? Were they all supposed to have forelocks?
Amolekite means "homicidal hater of Jews" (like Hitler, or the Old Testament character Haman), right? Were they all supposed to have forelocks?
Yeah, the whole "he had Mongolian in him" is kind of creepy... Besides, I don't recall the Horde ever actually entering that deep into Europe? I thought the farthest they ever got was Hungary? I believe that he is confusing them with the Ottomans.
Irregardless, judging character based on looks is... hilarious.
Now then... I doubt that this would have any effect on Nazi Germany; if such a leader is actually able to pull off the INCREDIBLE feats that Hitler did (honestly, although the guy was evil, being able to pull off the pre-1939 political exploits that he did is staggering, even when you know the reasons why), and has kept Nazi Germany "Nazi" (including hatred of Jews), then history will go the same route. It wasn't Hitler's looks that ruined him, it was his addiction to drugs (interesting theory I recently read, based off documents from Hitler's doctor, said that he was given mild cocaine to "stay awake" and conduct the incredible level of micromanagement that he did with the armies in the Soviet Union, down to issuing orders to individual COMPANIES; this progressed to pure cocaine after the assassination attempt) and his belief of himself as a Chosen One who could not fail that doomed him. You just can't beat Russia in a long, drawn out war.
Irregardless, judging character based on looks is... hilarious.
Now then... I doubt that this would have any effect on Nazi Germany; if such a leader is actually able to pull off the INCREDIBLE feats that Hitler did (honestly, although the guy was evil, being able to pull off the pre-1939 political exploits that he did is staggering, even when you know the reasons why), and has kept Nazi Germany "Nazi" (including hatred of Jews), then history will go the same route. It wasn't Hitler's looks that ruined him, it was his addiction to drugs (interesting theory I recently read, based off documents from Hitler's doctor, said that he was given mild cocaine to "stay awake" and conduct the incredible level of micromanagement that he did with the armies in the Soviet Union, down to issuing orders to individual COMPANIES; this progressed to pure cocaine after the assassination attempt) and his belief of himself as a Chosen One who could not fail that doomed him. You just can't beat Russia in a long, drawn out war.
Proctol
Banned
No: I am not confusing them with the Ottomans. Actually the Mongols penetrated as far west as Liegnitz in 1241, where they defeated and killed Henry of Silesia & 20,000 Teutonic Knights, & fought "Good" King Wenceslas & his Bohemians. Liegnitz was one of the few cities that successfully withstood a Mongol siege.
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NapoleonXIV
Banned
One of the accounts I've read of Hitler seems to indicate his nondescript and almost sickly appearance may have actually contributed to his effectiveness:
...suddenly this man, who has been awkwardly standing around... begins to speak, filling the room with his voice, suppressing interruptions or contradictions by his domineering manner, spreading cold shivers among those present by the savagery of his declaration, lifting every subject of conversation into the light of history...the listener is filled with awe and feels that a new phenomenon has entered the room. This thundering demon was not there before; this is not the same timid man with the contracted shoulders. (my italics) He is capable of this transformation in a personal interview and facing an audience of half a million.
The Psychopathic God: Adolf Hitler by Robert G.I. White, pg 240
...suddenly this man, who has been awkwardly standing around... begins to speak, filling the room with his voice, suppressing interruptions or contradictions by his domineering manner, spreading cold shivers among those present by the savagery of his declaration, lifting every subject of conversation into the light of history...the listener is filled with awe and feels that a new phenomenon has entered the room. This thundering demon was not there before; this is not the same timid man with the contracted shoulders. (my italics) He is capable of this transformation in a personal interview and facing an audience of half a million.
The Psychopathic God: Adolf Hitler by Robert G.I. White, pg 240
Proctol said:
For how long? I was under the impression that the Ordo returned home for elections (see, the advantages of servicemen's ballots being cast in theatre...)
More irksomely - the Mongols moved as far as the outskirts of Vienna, but they did so briefly. To assume that that event created a significant admixture from the Central Asian gene pool is dubious to say the least, even if we assume that they raped anything female in their path and did not remove any slaves on retreating. A similarly doubtful claim has recently been advanced about a French village whose inhabitants were thought descendants of Attila's hordes.
There's probably plenty of Central Asian blood in Central Europe. The Mongols are less likely candidates for this than the Sarmatians, Avars, Alans, Hungarians and Turks, though. These folks stayed and intermarried, converted to local religions in many cases and may by now only be traceable in genetic research, if at all. For Hitler to have had Mongol ancestry would be a very strange (though admittedly not impossible) coincidence. Which is not tio say his contemporaries did not connect him with Central Asia. A mid-30s piece of doggerel had it:
He's got an Italian Salute
And an English moustache
Rules, like Attila, with the whip:
Adolf, the German
Isn't it slightly ironic to discuss the man whose failure to take over the world lead to the end of the Eugenic pseudoscience by declaring, without evidence, that he "looks Asian"?
Proctol
Banned
Quite a few European Jews survived the Holocaust by escaping to China & Japan. The Japanese did not mistreat them at all, despite German protestations.
Here
http://www.issho.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=125
it is related how a rabbi defended himself to the Japanese questioning:"What do the Germans have against you?" He stroked his white beard for a bit and said, "You might find it hard to believe, but when I was younger, my hair was black like yours. My eyes are brown like yours. We Jews are Asians, coming as we do from the Middle East. You've seen the German posters, the ones with the blonde, blue-eyed girls on them. That's why they hate us -- because we are black-haired brown-eyed Asians, like you." The Japanese admirals went out for four or five hours to deliberate and came back and said, "You have nothing to worry about, we will protect you for the duration of the war!"
Here
http://www.issho.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=125
it is related how a rabbi defended himself to the Japanese questioning:"What do the Germans have against you?" He stroked his white beard for a bit and said, "You might find it hard to believe, but when I was younger, my hair was black like yours. My eyes are brown like yours. We Jews are Asians, coming as we do from the Middle East. You've seen the German posters, the ones with the blonde, blue-eyed girls on them. That's why they hate us -- because we are black-haired brown-eyed Asians, like you." The Japanese admirals went out for four or five hours to deliberate and came back and said, "You have nothing to worry about, we will protect you for the duration of the war!"
John Rabe
quote:
Quite a few European Jews survived the Holocaust by escaping to China & Japan. The Japanese did not mistreat them at all, despite German protestations.
Here
http://www.issho.org/modules.php?op...article&sid=125
it is related how a rabbi defended himself to the Japanese questioning:"What do the Germans have against you?" He stroked his white beard for a bit and said, "You might find it hard to believe, but when I was younger, my hair was black like yours. My eyes are brown like yours. We Jews are Asians, coming as we do from the Middle East. You've seen the German posters, the ones with the blonde, blue-eyed girls on them. That's why they hate us -- because we are black-haired brown-eyed Asians, like you." The Japanese admirals went out for four or five hours to deliberate and came back and said, "You have nothing to worry about, we will protect you for the duration of the war!"
Yeah, it's also ironic that, while the Japs in Shanghai etc, as Nazi Germany's major allies, didn't lift a finger to persecute Jews, there was the 'Good German of Nanking', the German diplomat John Rabe, who was also an active card-carrying Nazi Party member, who saved tens of thousands of Chinese civilians from Jap atrocities during the 1937 Rape of Nanking.
quote:
Quite a few European Jews survived the Holocaust by escaping to China & Japan. The Japanese did not mistreat them at all, despite German protestations.
Here
http://www.issho.org/modules.php?op...article&sid=125
it is related how a rabbi defended himself to the Japanese questioning:"What do the Germans have against you?" He stroked his white beard for a bit and said, "You might find it hard to believe, but when I was younger, my hair was black like yours. My eyes are brown like yours. We Jews are Asians, coming as we do from the Middle East. You've seen the German posters, the ones with the blonde, blue-eyed girls on them. That's why they hate us -- because we are black-haired brown-eyed Asians, like you." The Japanese admirals went out for four or five hours to deliberate and came back and said, "You have nothing to worry about, we will protect you for the duration of the war!"
Yeah, it's also ironic that, while the Japs in Shanghai etc, as Nazi Germany's major allies, didn't lift a finger to persecute Jews, there was the 'Good German of Nanking', the German diplomat John Rabe, who was also an active card-carrying Nazi Party member, who saved tens of thousands of Chinese civilians from Jap atrocities during the 1937 Rape of Nanking.
Proctol
Banned
That's why I put the "Good" in inverted commas!
I am well aware that the Wenceslas of Xmas carol fame who died in 929 is not the same Wenceslas who fought the Mongols in 1241
However this article does call him "Wise"!
http://www.deremilitari.org/RESOURCES/ARTICLES/sinor1.htm
I am well aware that the Wenceslas of Xmas carol fame who died in 929 is not the same Wenceslas who fought the Mongols in 1241
However this article does call him "Wise"!
http://www.deremilitari.org/RESOURCES/ARTICLES/sinor1.htm
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