So let's say that Germany and Russia both become fascist at around the same time and through similar circumstances. Nazis rise to power as in OTL. Russia fares worse in the events after WW1 than in OTL and loses land, communist revolution follows which fails (or the Whites win the Civil War), territorial losses are blamed on ethnic minorities (such as Ukrainians, Kazakhs, and Germans) within the Russian Empire. A fascist state is established where their general goal is to push Russian "living space" west into Poland, the Baltic states, and Germany, then take control of the rest of Europe once they're finished with that.

They share a general attitude towards religion, Jews and other minorities, communism, etc. They share a similar goal, but they conflict with each other greatly. They view each other as the inferior races that need to be wiped out.

Who allies with who (would be very interesting to see two "Axis Powers" fighting each other)? What would the conflict between them look like? Who would win? What would happen in the aftermath?
 
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There would be a lot of nastiness on both sides.
Very true. German prisoners of war in Russia would be treated much worse than in OTL Soviet Union. The Japanese would be targets of ethnic cleansing too as revenge for 1905, and I think an invasion of Japan would be another goal of theirs. Russia would meanwhile probably invade China to support the KMT to support them and defeat Mao's communists. In general, there would need to be a huge purge in Mainland Russia in order for full-on Russification to work because of the amount of non-white people living there (and maybe whites would be encouraged to breed more rapidly to outnumber the non-whites?).

I think Slavs might even be treated worse in Nazi Germany than in OTL too. I don't think there would even be a pact between the two either.
 
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It's a challenge to create a Russian equivalent to German National Socialism. It's much easier to devise a means of bringing about a generic fascist Russia.

Nazism was characterised by the standard elements of fascism as manifested in its original Italian form - extreme nationalism, irredentism and corporatism are obvious shared tenets. However, it also exhibited several distinct elements, most notably anti-Semitism and industrialised mass-murder, neither of which were as central to Mussolini's regime. This is due to the fact that all fascist regimes differ in their priorities and emphases, because fascism (as an explicitly ultranationalist ideology) is shaped by its national context to a greater degree than liberalism, socialism (both of which are generally internationalist to some extent, at least in theory), conservatism (which is based on pragmatism, not dogmatism, and cannot therefore commit to nationalism without reason) or anarchism (which opposes the concept of a state).

It might, however, be relatively easy to produce a similar form of virulent anti-Semitism in Russia, given the history of the pogroms and various other forms of persecution. Whether or not this would translate into the horror and barbarism of mass industrialised slaughter is up for consideration.

I imagine the western democracies would view both with equal distaste. There would not be the same degree of tolerance for Nazism without the threat of Bolshevism which existed IOTL. If ideology is put aside as a factor, the policies of Britain and France are going to be shaped more explicitly by their concerns regarding national interest and the balance of power. Therefore, the side upon which the 'West' would fall depends strongly upon the intentions and actions of the Russians in particular, as this will be different to OTL. If Russia seeks its 'mare nostrum' by desiring domination of the Black Sea and access to warm-water ports wherever they can be found (especially Constantinople, and potentially in Persia or China), Britain is going to fear Petrograd/Moscow more than a Berlin government which seeks to absorb majority-German regions of central and eastern Europe. Britain and France would have to consider the balance of power in all of Eurasia, not just Europe, and so might (operative word: might) overlook Nazi pan-Germanism if Russia is a greater threat to their vital interests.

There are interesting implications for East Asia. Japan is probably going to oppose Russia under whatever circumstances, which will almost certainly result in significant Russian help for the Kuomintang. The fascistic influences within Chiang Kai-Shek's regime may come out on top, thus creating the possibility of a Sino-Russian alliance against the Japanese.
 
I think the Ottomans or whoever rules the middle east here would side with Germany, as they have less to fear from Germany than Russia. Russia might start seriously cracking down on muslims in central asia and the caucasus, and the middle east is also more of Russia's territorial interest than Germany's.
 
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@SeaCambrian What would be your thoughts regarding this?
If instead of a "generic" fascist or imperialist Russia, it was specifically Nazi ideology transplanted into Russia, then Russia would be a lot weaker than the OTL Soviet Union. A Nazi Russia would have started deporting entire populations (Ukrainians, Central Asians, Jews, Caucasians) to Siberia and engaged in unviable resettlement schemes before the war started. They would have exiled scientists who were Jewish, like Nazi Germany, but with a a less developed scientific base in the first place. "Nazi Russia" would have purges similar to Stalin's, but with exacerbated ethnic tensions. They would also have socialist partisans to deal with in their own territory.
 
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I have Nazism be far more popular in my timeline, with Nazi Germany and Nazi France fighting together to overthrow the USSR in the 1970's. As a result they form a collaborationist army with support for Strasserist National Socialism which survives TTLs Second World War.
 
I have Nazism be far more popular in my timeline, with Nazi Germany and Nazi France fighting together to overthrow the USSR in the 1970's. As a result they form a collaborationist army with support for Strasserist National Socialism which survives TTLs Second World War.

Where would the UK stand on this?
 
Where would the UK stand on this?
Feed both sides ammunition discretely and let them burn each other to the ground?

Oh wait, missed the quote.

Okay, the UK would definitely be freaking the fuck out, and would work closely with the USA and whatever allies it can find, possibly arming and helping independence movements in France's colonies.
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
I imagine the western democracies would view both with equal distaste. There would not be the same degree of tolerance for Nazism without the threat of Bolshevism which existed IOTL. If ideology is put aside as a factor, the policies of Britain and France are going to be shaped more explicitly by their concerns regarding national interest and the balance of power. Therefore, the side upon which the 'West' would fall depends strongly upon the intentions and actions of the Russians in particular, as this will be different to OTL. If Russia seeks its 'mare nostrum' by desiring domination of the Black Sea and access to warm-water ports wherever they can be found (especially Constantinople, and potentially in Persia or China), Britain is going to fear Petrograd/Moscow more than a Berlin government which seeks to absorb majority-German regions of central and eastern Europe. Britain and France would have to consider the balance of power in all of Eurasia, not just Europe, and so might (operative word: might) overlook Nazi pan-Germanism if Russia is a greater threat to their vital interests.

There are interesting implications for East Asia. Japan is probably going to oppose Russia under whatever circumstances, which will almost certainly result in significant Russian help for the Kuomintang. The fascistic influences within Chiang Kai-Shek's regime may come out on top, thus creating the possibility of a Sino-Russian alliance against the Japanese.
First of all, Britain and France are two separate countries with their own differing interests. France could easily end up siding with Russia against Germany and Britain in the alt-Second World War. That's assuming that Britain would get involved at all, which they probably won't as they'd rather let both countries bleed each other dry. Germany is objectively more dangerous to France than Russia, so France will be backing the Russians in any case. Second of all, Japan isn't somehow guaranteed to become an ultranationalist military dictatorship that invades China in every timeline. Maybe they sell weapons to both sides and stay neutral. Maybe they grab the DEI while the world is distracted, or even go for the French and British colonies.
 
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