Nazi Germany Under Goering...

Nietzsche

Banned

*Sigh* No he wasn't that was a PR tactic the Nazis used OTL to make themselves appear respectable to foreigners. Honestly the fact that Goering's ''good cop'' act has survived, in historic memory is quite astonishing really.:(


Anyway like I said his leadership isn't the issue, the issue is that without Hitler Nazism is D-E-A-D!
Maybe you misunderstood. He's very much a moderate...for a NAZI.
 

Deleted member 1487

You do know he was on those drugs because he had several bullet wounds right?

Anyway, Goering is probably the best choice to lead Germany...when all your options are Nazis, that is. He's much more moderate, and I don't think the holocaust would've happened with him calling the shots. Not to mention, his view of Lebensraum was much more akin to the Mitteleuropa concept. Puppet states feeding German raw materials and such.

That's actually been debunked by Richard Overy in his bio on Goering. Goering appeared moderate because he was always playing deal maker earlier on with the army and Hitler, but was most definitely not, even for the Nazis. Much of the really ugly shit the Nazis got up to would have happened to some degree under him.
 

MSZ

Banned
Germany under Goring would see the same racial policies as OTL Germany saw (Nuremberg Laws, plus all the other legislation limiting different races rights) since Goring was among those who signed those laws in the first place. I doubt he would back out. Him being a "moderate", or "moderate for a Nazi" is kind of an overstatement, based on the fact that he was among those in the top leadership that wasn't itching for war. And that was it, he was down with everything else that happened in the Reich, there are literally tons of paperwork proving that leftover from the Nuremberg Trials. So Goring probably wouldn't start a war - he was too into living a comfortable life and basking in the prestige of being a leader to put such a burden onto himself.

He does have a good shot at becoming leader. The idea that Himmler would take over is idiotic - the SS only became something of a force to be reckoned with during the war, and even then was always dwarfed by the Wehrmacht. It is more likely that Himmler would be dismissed by Goring once he became chancellor and Himmler's career would end there. Goring's real competition would be Rudolf Hess who was the chief of the party. It is important to remember that Nazi Germany officialy did not have a Deputy Chancellor - if Hitler died, a new one would have to be elected. Hess is at the head of the Party after Hitler so he has a good chance of getting the votes; OTOH Goring is the President of the Reichstag and Chief of the Luftwaffe with some support in the Army. He does stand a good chance at pulling off a night of long knives using the army, and maybe the police through his ally Frick.

And later? I wouldn't paint him as a joke who spends time high on morphine eating doughnuts. He was able to be somewhat competent during the Nuremberg Trials, if he had to rule a country where a lot of peoplewould probably wan't to usurp him, he would more likely keep his guard up than ignore the threats. He would still inherit all the problems Nazi Germany had before the war, and given his performance as the chief of the 4 year plan office, things might go both ways: he did make a lot of bad stuff happen to the economy, but didn't go all the way as many wanted him to (such as full nationalization of all industries, which would have been a nightmare). Hard to say if that was him learning from mistakes, being able to listen to advisors or dumb luck combined with incompetence at doingwhat he was ordered to do. He would be a ruler of a totalitarian state. This would give him a lot of options at "fixing" German problems, even if it meant killing Germans.
 
If he comes to power before 1938 I can see quite a few big differences. There is more than likely no Austrian re-unification and no need for a Munich Agreement. I don't think he wanted a war until 1942 and the only one he wanted to fight was the USSR, think that's right. Is it? A much more economic powerful Germany than one that had to have a war. Yes have 'puppet goverments' in the east or at the very least allies there, they would not fear Germany as much, if at all. As for the Jews rob them not kill them. The west would still rearm, just in case. Overall there would be a punch up between Germany and the USSR and maybe the west could just sit back and let them get on with it. (hope ypu know what I mean.)
 

abc123

Banned
He does have a good shot at becoming leader. The idea that Himmler would take over is idiotic - the SS only became something of a force to be reckoned with during the war, and even then was always dwarfed by the Wehrmacht. It is more likely that Himmler would be dismissed by Goring once he became chancellor and Himmler's career would end there. Goring's real competition would be Rudolf Hess who was the chief of the party. It is important to remember that Nazi Germany officialy did not have a Deputy Chancellor - if Hitler died, a new one would have to be elected. Hess is at the head of the Party after Hitler so he has a good chance of getting the votes; OTOH Goring is the President of the Reichstag and Chief of the Luftwaffe with some support in the Army. He does stand a good chance at pulling off a night of long knives using the army, and maybe the police through his ally Frick.


Goering was also a Minister-President of Prussia, and that is, at least in theory, VERY important position, so he is, somewhat, natural sucessor of Hitler as Chancellor. But it is, IMO entirely possible that Hess would remain Party Leader, while somebody else would become the Reichpresident...
 

Soundgarden

Banned
As far as Goering being moderate or moderate for a Nazi goes, I think thats only half true at best. He might've not came up with the idea to exterminate the Jews, but he certainly didn't do anything to stop others who wanted to, which he certainly had the power to do if he really wanted to be "moderate." He even signed documents to go ahead with it.

The Nuremburg Trials contradicted him not knowing anything about what was going on. Every now and then, he would shield indivudal Jews from harm if given a bribe, but thats it really. At most, he didn't care what happened to the enemies of The Reich, wheather they were killed or not.

That being said, if he was in charge of Nazi Germany before the war, I would imagine The Reich would be more like a Apartheid South Africa, rather then a murderous regime. Somebody on this forum posted what would happen if Hitler and the Nazis were less anti-semtic and it called for Jews to accept Aryanization or leave the country. I can picture something like that with Goering in charge.
 
The fact is that the short period of 'Goering cabinet' while Hitler was off warmongering in Poland was remembered by all involved as a much better and effective rule and decision making than when Hitler was at helm. If that is anything to go by, Goering would be at least more effective leader than Hitler was.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
The fact is that the short period of 'Goering cabinet' while Hitler was off warmongering in Poland was remembered by all involved as a much better and effective rule and decision making than when Hitler was at helm. If that is anything to go by, Goering would be at least more effective leader than Hitler was.
Hitler loathed all bureaucracy, and also hated sticking to any sort of schedule. He would also make decisions on a whim, and change his mind within the hour. There was no Nazi 'government' under Hitler. It was a mess, and calling it feudal would be an insult to feudalism.

Goering, on the other hand, liked a well-ordered system. All orders and such would come from him, obviously, but there would still be governing organs to make those laws, orders and such enforced and held to. Where Hitler only sent down orders, and left it to his 'Old Fighters' to implement them, Goering would likely personally ensure that things were running his way.

As for the Holocaust...I sincerely doubt he would have persued anything more than taxing harshly and making them second-class citizens. He's simply have more important things to do.

Goering saw the war as a method to ensure German domination over the continent. Hitler saw the war as a method to eradicate every Jew in Europe.
 
There's a new French comic (World War 2.2) using a sucessful assassination plot against Hitler, that put Goering as Chancellor of the Reich. That's not the only POD obviously, because bad weather also occur duing the offensive through the ardennes which seems to delay the breakthrough by a week (and saves the BEF and a good part of the French army, I assume from what I read). The front is stabilised at Paris, (That seems dubious, notably by the use of the Allies Air Force, that was outnumbered and not train in the same way as the Luftwaffe). It's hard to give more details cause it's seen from the POV of a few French soldiers in the capital and there's only the first issue for now.
 
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