Nazi Germany goes after the Middle East during WW2?

I was watching this video (The main reason why Germany lost WW2- OIL) on youtube, and the poster argued that a severe oil shortage in Germany was the main reason for their defeat, and that if they didn't attempt an invasion of the Soviet Union by 1941 and win, they would run out of Oil as a result of Britain continuing their fight, and collapse. During the video, he mentioned the Middle East as a possible candidate by the Germans as a place for invasion to get the oil to fuel their war machine. What if Hitler and co went after the Middle East?
 
I was watching this video (The main reason why Germany lost WW2- OIL) on youtube, and the poster argued that a severe oil shortage in Germany was the main reason for their defeat, and that if they didn't attempt an invasion of the Soviet Union by 1941 and win, they would run out of Oil as a result of Britain continuing their fight, and collapse. During the video, he mentioned the Middle East as a possible candidate by the Germans as a place for invasion to get the oil to fuel their war machine. What if Hitler and co went after the Middle East?

Logistics and the RN say hi
 
Logistics and the RN say hi

This. Even assuming they can physically conquer their way to the gulf, there's not enough shipping capacity or security to get the oil to the refineries and then back to the Reich for use. Prying it loose from the Caucauses and shipping it across the Black Sea (or just using it locally on the southern Russian front) is an infinitely better option
 
my usual post on subject of oil is that discovery of large Matzen oilfield in Austria is best (most likely) option for Germany. perhaps if they got Austria six months to year earlier, or developed interests in Austrian oilfields earlier?

on the Middle East there actually is (relative to Germany's position in WWII) a substantial amount of oil in Syria, that could be reached (my understanding) with 1940's technology. my view is Syria was lost opportunity, oil, bases to strike at Soviets (if it came to that.)
 

BlondieBC

Banned
I was watching this video (The main reason why Germany lost WW2- OIL) on youtube, and the poster argued that a severe oil shortage in Germany was the main reason for their defeat, and that if they didn't attempt an invasion of the Soviet Union by 1941 and win, they would run out of Oil as a result of Britain continuing their fight, and collapse. During the video, he mentioned the Middle East as a possible candidate by the Germans as a place for invasion to get the oil to fuel their war machine. What if Hitler and co went after the Middle East?

The soviets destroyed the Heer. This is why Germany lost.
 
Logistics and the RN say hi

Logistics... Few games, YouTube videos, or History Channel episodes, have any useful appreciation of the difference in transportation between Western Europe and anywhere else in the world. The German and Italian armies were designed for the relatively robust transport network of Europe. They struggled outside their comfort zone. The Brits understood the problems and they still had difficulties.
 
my usual post on subject of oil is that discovery of large Matzen oilfield in Austria is best (most likely) option for Germany. perhaps if they got Austria six months to year earlier, or developed interests in Austrian oilfields earlier?

on the Middle East there actually is (relative to Germany's position in WWII) a substantial amount of oil in Syria, that could be reached (my understanding) with 1940's technology. my view is Syria was lost opportunity, oil, bases to strike at Soviets (if it came to that.)

Do they have time to develop the refining capacity as well as extraction though? German heavy industry is already on a pretty strict timetable with the military buildup.
 
Rommel had already in Egypt stretched supply route pretty much and Brits controlled effectively some good strategic points. So capturing even Palestine would be hellish job speciality when Brits and ANZAC were breathing to their neck. And in Palestine Germans would face Haganah and it has not any reason love Germans.
 
I was watching this video (The main reason why Germany lost WW2- OIL) on youtube, and the poster argued that a severe oil shortage in Germany was the main reason for their defeat, and that if they didn't attempt an invasion of the Soviet Union by 1941 and win, they would run out of Oil as a result of Britain continuing their fight, and collapse. During the video, he mentioned the Middle East as a possible candidate by the Germans as a place for invasion to get the oil to fuel their war machine. What if Hitler and co went after the Middle East?

The idea that oil was the critical issue is overplayed. The fact is Germany was short of almost everything by 1941, including food. A big part of the timing of Barbarossa was to seize the 'breadbasket' of the Ukraine and stave off the threat from food shortages on the home front, as well as al the other resources the USSR offered. One of the reasons they didn't even try to get the Ukrainians onside (beside their odious ideology) is that they needed to loot the place to keep Germany going. The Middle East just isn't going to fit the bill. And that doesn't even allow for logistics or the Nazi obsession with 'lebensraum'.
 
Germans originally planned to get their oil from the Caucasus oil fields (Maikop, Grozny, Baku) - not the Middle East and TIK also says the Germans should have gone for the Caucasus in 1941.
 

hipper

Banned
I was watching this video (The main reason why Germany lost WW2- OIL) on youtube, and the poster argued that a severe oil shortage in Germany was the main reason for their defeat, and that if they didn't attempt an invasion of the Soviet Union by 1941 and win, they would run out of Oil as a result of Britain continuing their fight, and collapse. During the video, he mentioned the Middle East as a possible candidate by the Germans as a place for invasion to get the oil to fuel their war machine. What if Hitler and co went after the Middle East?

The closest oil fields Around Mosul has been destroyed (wells capped with cement and drill bits dropped in the Wells) only a few wells were left in production to keep the Haifa oil refinery in production. Rommel needed to go to Iran to get useful amounts of oil. Baku was closer.
 
my usual post on subject of oil is that discovery of large Matzen oilfield in Austria is best (most likely) option for Germany. perhaps if they got Austria six months to year earlier, or developed interests in Austrian oilfields earlier?

on the Middle East there actually is (relative to Germany's position in WWII) a substantial amount of oil in Syria, that could be reached (my understanding) with 1940's technology. my view is Syria was lost opportunity, oil, bases to strike at Soviets (if it came to that.)

Do they have time to develop the refining capacity as well as extraction though? German heavy industry is already on a pretty strict timetable with the military buildup.

the Matzen field is in Vienna Basin, which was already expanding pre-war and Syria/Lebanon had refinery and pipelines (for French portion of Iraqi oil, the pipeline diverged with British portion going to (IIRC) Haifa.)

think the benefit would be the synthetic plants could stay at a more reasonable level vs. madcap wartime rush to expand? (what is actually a pretty inefficient process) all of that affected German industry too.

the bomb proof solution to their fuel issue would be widespread producer gas vehicles (the water tank sized units towed or mounted that could literally use ANY fuel including coal.)
 
Really dumb question but what was the status of North Sea oil in the 1940s or are the platforms, even if close to Norway just easy targets for the RN?
 
Really dumb question but what was the status of North Sea oil in the 1940s or are the platforms, even if close to Norway just easy targets for the RN?


I don't think the major fields were known and I suspect it would have been beyond the capabilities of the period to exploit them.
 

hipper

Banned
I don't think the major fields were known and I suspect it would have been beyond the capabilities of the period to exploit them.

The first offshore oil rigs were in Baku immediately post war so no North Sea oil fields. the first wells were drilled in the late 60’s
 
I was watching this video (The main reason why Germany lost WW2- OIL) on youtube, and the poster argued that a severe oil shortage in Germany was the main reason for their defeat, and that if they didn't attempt an invasion of the Soviet Union by 1941 and win, they would run out of Oil as a result of Britain continuing their fight, and collapse. During the video, he mentioned the Middle East as a possible candidate by the Germans as a place for invasion to get the oil to fuel their war machine. What if Hitler and co went after the Middle East?
There was also a 1941 article about this in the Life magazine: Map: German feared invasion of the Middle East (1941)

German invasion routes into the Middle East.

Nazi-occupied-Europe-map.jpg



To Dakar!

Europe-1941-map-1-600x400.jpg


Turkish neutrality

German-invasion-Middle-East-map-1-600x400.jpg

 
Feel free to check out my old "Hitler's Mediterranean Strategy" TL. (Hitler respects Turkey's neutrality, though.)

And then there's the possibility of a nazi airstrike against Baku from the ME.
 
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