Nazi Germany focuses solely on Britain after conquering France

The scenario is this: after conquering France and the Low Countries like in OTL, Hitler actually decides to honour the non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union and focuses all of Germany's resources to the invasion and conquest of Britain instead of invading the Soviet Union. What happens? Can the Nazi Germans conquer Britain?
 

RousseauX

Donor
The scenario is this: after conquering France and the Low Countries like in OTL, Hitler actually decides to honour the non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union and focuses all of Germany's resources to the invasion and conquest of Britain instead of invading the Soviet Union. What happens? Can the Nazi Germans conquer Britain?
The UK itself, no, it takes way too long to build up a navy to conquer the UK. And the US would have provoked a war if it really looked like Britain was going to be invaded.

the more interesting thing is if the Germans went after Turkey and invaded British Middle-East, while giving Stalin what he wanted over the Dardanelles and the Balkans to keep him on the German side.
 
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The UK itself, no, it takes way too long to build up a navy to conquer the UK. And the US would have provoked a war if it really looked like Britain was going to be invaded.

the more interesting thing is if the Germans went after Turkey and invaded British Middle-East, while giving Stalin what he wanted over the Dardanelles and the Balkans to keep him on the German side.
Can't the Nazis keep their aerial attacks on Britain? Granted, Britain obtained aerial superiority OTL and kicked back the Nazis thanks to that, but given the scenario here where Nazi Germany won't be expending resources fighting the USSR, can't Hitler focus on creating a better air force and superior planes to the Spitfire and keep bombing the UK into submission?
 
Can't the Nazis keep their aerial attacks on Britain? Granted, Britain obtained aerial superiority OTL and kicked back the Nazis thanks to that, but given the scenario here where Nazi Germany won't be expending resources fighting the USSR, can't Hitler focus on creating a better air force and superior planes to the Spitfire and keep bombing the UK into submission?
Something I see him possibly doing is dumping tons of troops in North Africa in order to gain control of the Suez.
 
Something I see him possibly doing is dumping tons of troops in North Africa in order to gain control of the Suez.

Suez itself is worthless to Germany.

Well, sort of. It'd be a significant hit to British morale and threaten Iraq and the Indian Ocean. But there's still a vast amount of desert or another choke point at Aden to overcome before Germany reaches or acquires something militarily or economically useful.

The overall problem is that the Med Strategy goes nowhere.
 
Blocking the Suez can indeed harm Britain given how it was a quick passage to Asia and connected its Asian colonies to its East African colonies and protectorates like Somalia, Kenya and Uganda, as well as South Africa. Even if most of Britain is self-sustained instead of depending on the colonies, it would significantly harm its economy nevertheless, and it helps that the US will have a far harder time getting to Egypt than getting to Britain and Germany.
 
Blocking the Suez can indeed harm Britain given how it was a quick passage to Asia and connected its Asian colonies to its East African colonies and protectorates like Somalia, Kenya and Uganda, as well as South Africa. Even if most of Britain is self-sustained instead of depending on the colonies, it would significantly harm its economy nevertheless, and it helps that the US will have a far harder time getting to Egypt than getting to Britain and Germany.
it's also a much softer target than Britain itself, and the most easy target for them. They'd have to be brain-dead to not jump at the chance to seize the Suez.
 
it's also a much softer target than Britain itself, and the most easy target for them. They'd have to be brain-dead to not jump at the chance to seize the Suez.

and Britain would be braindead not to massively reinforce it which they did. El Alamein was the limit of German logistics anyhow all the UK had to do was to hold out long enough for the IJN to strike south by Dec 7th and then the US joins the UK in a war against Japan and the UK as a vital ally now has access to US manufacturing for free. Or alternatively until some U Boat captain torps a major US surface asset and the US had casus belli
 
and Britain would be braindead not to massively reinforce it which they did. El Alamein was the limit of German logistics anyhow all the UK had to do was to hold out long enough for the IJN to strike south by Dec 7th and then the US joins the UK in a war against Japan and the UK as a vital ally now has access to US manufacturing for free. Or alternatively until some U Boat captain torps a major US surface asset and the US had casus belli
Exactly.
Hence we see some huge battle in the vicinity of Suez ITTL.
 
Blocking the Suez can indeed harm Britain given how it was a quick passage to Asia and connected its Asian colonies to its East African colonies and protectorates like Somalia, Kenya and Uganda, as well as South Africa. Even if most of Britain is self-sustained instead of depending on the colonies, it would significantly harm its economy nevertheless, and it helps that the US will have a far harder time getting to Egypt than getting to Britain and Germany.

The Med was already closed. Convoys went round the Cape. There's no need to go to Suez.
 
No there wouldn't El Alamein was the limit of German logistics at best the Axis advance a few dozen kilometers closer to Alexandria
ITTL, if the Germans are throwing enough troops in North Africa, it's only natural their supply train could be made longer as well.
And where else would those troops be used anyway?
 
ITTL, if the Germans are throwing enough troops in North Africa, it's only natural their supply train could be made longer as well.
And where else would those troops be used anyway?

So are the Italians improving the throughput of their ports? Because that's what matters here not whatever troops the Germans are funneling through a tight logistical choke point
 
ITTL, if the Germans are throwing enough troops in North Africa, it's only natural their supply train could be made longer as well.
And where else would those troops be used anyway?

The number of lorries required to supply an army and its lorries 1100 miles from its supply base is simply amazing.
 
It's not that you're wrong, really. Certainly, more lorries could be sent, particularly if there's no war with the Soviet Union.

The problem is the scale of what's required. It's really difficult to improve the logistical situation of an army 1100 miles from its major supply base. It takes a vast number of lorries, because each one has to carry not only its cargo, but its own fuel as well. And it's so far that a round trip would take, in the terrible North African roads, probably almost a week? At that distance, doubling the number of lorries increases the size of the force sustainable at the sharp end by a much smaller amount. And the half life of a lorry in those conditions is so poor that you need a constant flow of replacements just to keep up with attrition, all of which have to pass through. the limited port capacity of Tripoli, while paying Malta's tolls... it's a hell of diminishing returns.

For example, the Germans calculated that supplying a motorised division 300 miles from its supply base with the 350 tonnes per day it required would take 1200 lorries. For multiple divisions three times as far away, we're probably getting into tens of thousands of lorries...
 
How much industrial capacity could be turned elsewhere if there is no eastern front? OTL, I seem to remember that Britain won the air battle because Germany couldn't keep replenishing its planes. With no need for aircraft eastwards and vastly fewer tanks and rifles being produced, I would think Germany might gain air superiority over Britain by 1941-1942, at least until Americans arrive in force.


Of course, the USSR is only going to sit there for so long before it realizes there is a profit to be made off of this war. Either land grabs once Germany is clearly inferior, or sell arms to the Allies. Maybe invade Manchuria like OTL, or even get so far as Korea with no major war in the west.

Overall, I think this is going to make Germany go even worse than it did historically.
 
As far as I can tell, the British produced over twice as many fighters, and had a much greater capacity to train pilots. Luftwaffe expansion did occur, but it just takes time for the factories to be built, and lack of raw materials was always a problem. The Luftwaffe's chances of attaining air superiority in the face of superior numbers, superior industrial capacity and the state of the art air defence system is zero even if they did have a clear idea of how to go about doing it, which in 1940 they didn't.

1940: 2515 Hurricanes, 1252 Spitfires
1941: 3167 Hurricanes, 2518 Spitfires
1942: 3067 Hurricanes, 4143 Spitfires

1940: 1667 Bf 109s
1941: 2764 Bf 109s, 228 Fw 190s
1942: 2657 Bf 109s, 1850 Fw 190s
 
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