Nazi Germany 1952

sense there have been like 5 threads in two days about post-WWII Nazi Germany, i'll just ask what would Europe look like if the Nazis had won (won in this case means going all the Urals and force the UK into peace) who'd be in charge? what would the end result The Holocaust? what does society look like? so on
 

Valdemar II

Banned
German Russia would look like Algeria, but without the "nice" approach of the French. Millions of natives would serve the German against their countrymen in the hope of being recognised as "Aryan" or "near Aryan". By 1952 I would guess the loses is already in the tens of millions with large part of the country depopulated, while German buy up farmland and build large farms, served by enslaved natives and native "Aryan" overseers. While former cities is rebuild (The Germans has most likely killed or relocated most urban population) as German enclaves in the middle of the vastland.
 
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Interestingly, I was reading Dan Van der Vat on Albert Speer this morning and there the question is raised of Speer being declared his successor by Hitler. One wonders how this would play out, because if Germany wins the war then its obviously to a large degre down to Speer and his abilities with regards to armaments and co-ordinating labour etc.

Regarding rivals, I consider it POSSIBLE that Himmler would accept Speer on the basis that he could hope to continue to wear down 'normal' society and build up the SS as a state within a state, hoping to either emerge later as leader, or to be leader behind the scenes. Speer was working closely with Pohl and Kammler, so there's no huge diversion of interests at first

Goebbels' diaries reveal him as a pragmatist who couldn't get Hitler to agree, at least not without changing his mind soon after, and who was constantly frustrated by people like Goering and Lammers who were playing power politics instead of focusing on winning the war first and foremost. Thus, I could see Goebbels and Speer having an alliance of convenience, despite personal animosity

Bormann is nothing without Hitler so if he can stay on and run the party, and perhaps the SA too, then he would probably be forced to accept this

Pragmatist military leaders may well rally round Speer, people like Manstein, Kesselring, even Dietrich

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Answer is probably not good. The Peace between Germany and the United Kingdom would be an uneasy one, and one that probably means that the USA has placed a heavy garrison on Britain (and perhaps one on Ireland as well.) In 1952 the USA/UK would probably have the A Bomb, and they would be pointing it at Germany, which would have weapons of its own pointing back at them.

In addition, the Germans are now presiding over the second holocaust--the organized murder and expulsion of Slavs, a daunting but conceivable project. If there were dark rumors about the first holocaust, the second is ten times the scale. Partisan activity would continue, but by this distant point the Germans would probably have depopulated most of Poland and Bohemia--and its possible that various centers in the Soviet Union (Baltics and Crimea for example) might already be German inhabited.

There's no way around it, the Third Reich at 20 is going to be a massive armed camp in the early to mid phases of murdering/exiling tens of millions of people. The Remnants of the Soviet Union might still be at war with the Germans, a situation that betokens a Vietnam like conflict on a large scale. Even if the Soviet Remnants are not at war with the Germans, there is a bitter hatred for Germany that is perhaps worse than any hatred in Germany. The Eastern Front in the Urals is a war like the Iraq war--minimal losses but no real prospect for in end.

Some people have claimed that the Third Reich would have a technological advantage on the West. I believe that this would be focused mostly in military technology and that advantage would begin to fade as ideology trumps facts and a politicized education system focuses on indoctrination instead of instruction. In 1952, The USA is well ahead of Germany in many fields of learning, such as economics and sociology. The German edge in hard sciences, however, is fading away.

Life in Germany, at least for the Germans, is pretty good. Despite heavy military spending, the end of the shooting war means that the Average German lives a long, healthy life. Behind the scenes, however, lie the successors of slave labor factories--and here is where the price of the third reich is paid in sweat, tears and blood. The Slavs that live in German occupied areas at best live in poverty and SS Terror. More likely, they live in forced-labor camps until they can no longer work. Its an open question of whether a victorious reich would try to exterminate the Slavs through deliberate executions or simply exploit them to death. Either way, the Slavs are dwindling in number.

Perhaps the darkest question is whether in Germany cares. Undoubtedly some do and either attempt to subvert the system or flee the country. But I think the majority would simply appreciate the low prices of goods in their stores and accept their buying power and living conditions. The Racial doctrines of Nazi Germany would become an accepted fact, while the rest of the world moves on.

In short, Nazi Germany 1952 is a pleasant dream for the Germans--a world in which they don't need to work hard or worry about much more than their own protection through their own racial superiority. Its a dream destined to become a nightmare--the Slavs will eventually run out, and the ideological adjustments to science and economics begin to take their toll. And on the other side of the Urals, the shattered remnants of an abused people await the day they can take it all back. They will rebuild, they will reorganize, and when the time is right, they will get revenge. The Slavs might be the second Holocaust, but they would not be the last victims--the Third one would be the Germans themselves, and one wonders whether anyone will shed a tear for them either.
 
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