Nazi Gas in WW2

Impossible with Hitler as the leader, that was the one line he refused to cross.

If Hitler died on July 20th 1944 we would be hearing today and it would probably be believed mostly without question that at the end when the Soviets got near Germany he would have unleashed the gas on the Red Army.

Why didn't he? He might have seriously considered it if the WAllies weren't in the war and we're just watching the two sides bleed each other and gave him the thumbs up or at least strongly hinted they would look the other way the way the West did with Saddam in the 80s against Iran.

Some in Nazi Germany wanted the gas genie let out the bottle, but the fact Hitler never approved its use behind the lines for partisans which likely would not have resulted in a full scale gas war, but could have tells me he wanted to avoid that outcome.
 
hence why i compared it to sealion, since with hitler around the nazis using gas first has a lower probability than a successful sealion

Yeah but it can be easily changed with his death and having someone like Himmler taking power. Sealion is a whole bunch of "ain't gonna happen".
 
my understanding is that Hitler inquired from the experts whether Allies had Tabun (and presume other nerve agents) and was told yes, they did, based on some of the information being public?

if true that sounds like their use was at least being considered.
 
my understanding is that Hitler inquired from the experts whether Allies had Tabun (and presume other nerve agents) and was told yes, they did, based on some of the information being public?

if true that sounds like their use was at least being considered.

It really doesn't matter because within months of dropping them on London the WAllies would reverse chemically engineer the shit along with potentially dropping not just chemical, but also biological weapons on German cities.

None of the Great powers were sure what the others had and none of them wanted to find out the hard way.

Hitler is not just going to up and decide on day to unleash the gas, but it could have been started though misperception and pushing by generals in the field, especially if one was willing to risk death to get it going either among the Soviets or the Germans.
 
I always thought the Germans didn't use gas because retaliatory gas attacks against them would make the 700,000 + horses in their logistics chain.
 
What if instead of offensive gas, the Germans did defensive gas AND announced it, or did the same with Anthrax of their own.

There were very, very few suitable landing spots in Northern Europe for Overlord. Pas-de-Calais, Normandy, and one other place (I think). What if Hitler announced to the Allies that these possible landing zones were "ruined" with mustard gas and anthrax, and that they were a permanent no-man's land?
 
What if instead of offensive gas, the Germans did defensive gas AND announced it, or did the same with Anthrax of their own.

There were very, very few suitable landing spots in Northern Europe for Overlord. Pas-de-Calais, Normandy, and one other place (I think). What if Hitler announced to the Allies that these possible landing zones were "ruined" with mustard gas and anthrax, and that they were a permanent no-man's land?

Problem is gas and bio-weapons don't obey the lines on a map. Especially with something like Anthrax, you can't really control an outbreak of it, the spores are going to infect thousands of civilians and animals. You'd probably see the Allies respond in a similar fashion against Germany as they have just massacred thousands of French civilians with bio-weapons.

Just on Gas, while it's an area denial weapon, that's only really temporary as it will dissapate. The only way to deny entry into France in such a manner would have to be Anthrax, with all the aforementioned issues.
 
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In the near future I will create a thread about the issue of german nerve gases. It won't be pleasant and it will savage lot of disinformation that many members of this forum dwell upon to dismiss thoughts too bad to be even be considered.
 
Mustard gas would last for up to a week on land. It was said to have caused only 5% fatalities despite its ghastly wounds, so it was mainly an area denial weapon. If used on beaches, then its effects in water also have to be considered:

Mustard Gas (Sulphur Mustard)

Contact with sea water turns mustard gas from its normal liquid state to viscous or even solid one. Hydrolyses with water only occurs after thorough mixing. Since it is heavier than water it sinks and it is believed that it can provide a continuing local source of poison for some time. Dangerous oily film of sulphur mustard remains on the water surface. HT is considered practically insoluble; that sulfur mustard freezes at 13-15°C and might become a semisolid at temperatures near the freezing point (such as those found at the bottom of water pools); and that hydrolysis occurs slowly, forming a thin “monolayer,” after which reaction rates for the entire volume of agent droplet or mass are negligible. In soil and water, some sulfur mustard evaporates into the air and the rest breaks down in minutes to days depending on environmental conditions.

At room temperature, mustard agent is a liquid with low volatility and is very stable during storage. The melting-point for pure mustard agent is 14.4 oC. In order to be able to effectively use mustard agent at lower temperatures, it has been mixed with lewisite in some types of ammunition in a ratio of 2:3. This mixture has a freezing-point of -26 oC. During the Second World War, a form of mustard agent with high viscosity was manufactured by means of the addition of a polymer. This is the first known example of a thickened CW agent.

At the beginning of September, the water temperature in the English Channel is 17°C but temperatures of 15 degrees are common, and 13 degrees are possible. Note of Sea Temperatures in the English Channel, 1929 to 1949, and Plymouth Sunshine and Light by WRG Atkins, and PG Jenkins, Journal of the Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdome Vol 31 No2 1952 pp. 328-329

In aqueous solutions, mustard agent decomposes into non-poisonous products by means of hydrolysis. This reaction is catalyzed by alkali. However, only dissolved mustard agent reacts, which means that the decomposition proceeds very slowly. If sulfur mustard is put in water, it dissolves within minutes if the water is stirred, and slowly if is not. When it does dissolve, it reacts with water and changes to other compounds. The time necessary for a quantity of sulfur mustard that is dissolved in water to decrease by half is about 2 minutes at 40 °C (104 °F). If large amounts of sulfur mustard are spilled into water, most of the sulfur mustard will change to other compounds very slowly or not at all.

Incidents are still occurring annually in the neighbourhood of Sweden where people risk injury from mustard agent. This largely involves fishermen who are exposed to mustard agent brought to the surface by fishing nets. The background is found in the dumping of chemical weapons after the Second World War in waters off the Danish and Swedish coasts. Many fishing ports in south Sweden and Denmark have resources to care for injured people and to decontaminate equipment contaminated by mustard agent. Certain resources are also available on the fishing vessels.
 
In the near future I will create a thread about the issue of german nerve gases. It won't be pleasant and it will savage lot of disinformation that many members of this forum dwell upon to dismiss thoughts too bad to be even be considered.

If you can't get Hitler to decide to gas the Red Army while they are at the gates when logistics don't matter at the high point of his anger and insanity and let everything burn mindset you aren't going to up and get him to use it say on the beaches or to save the 6th Army without a snowballing situation including things like some misreporting back to Berlin, Moscow and/or London that could have developed. So no it's not impossible to do, Churchill liked at least verbally the idea of drenching cities in gas, Hitler threatened more then once that he could pull the lever, a number of U.S. admirals and 25% of the public wanted to use gas on the Japanese even if they didn't use it on us first. But, none of the major powers wanted their cities gassed so in the end a MAD situation developed.

If WW3 ever gets fought we may find it end up being a purely conventional affair with nukes to WW3 what chemical and biological weapons were to WW2.
 
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What if instead of offensive gas, the Germans did defensive gas AND announced it, or did the same with Anthrax of their own.

There were very, very few suitable landing spots in Northern Europe for Overlord. Pas-de-Calais, Normandy, and one other place (I think). What if Hitler announced to the Allies that these possible landing zones were "ruined" with mustard gas and anthrax, and that they were a permanent no-man's land?

Then the Allies wear NBC suits and come in anyway.

Note that 1) chemical weapons 'poisoning' the landing sites is horribly inefficient, and doesn't last long, 2) Germans didn't have weaponized anthrax, AFAIK, 3) even British anthrax was in feedcakes to poison cattle, not people directly, and 4) anthrax spores on the ground aren't much of a danger to people - not in a military operation, when you EXPECT massive casualties. Sure, it would poison the area for generations, and French farmers couldn't raise cattle there for decades, but it wouldn't be much more than a speed bump for Overlord.
 
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