Nazi America vs. The World

[Rex Romanum]

Let's say during post-WWI era the United States was successfully taken over by hyper-nationalist right-wingers a la OTL Nazis (or in other words, a variety of fascism that incorporates biological racism and anti-semitism).

Their ideology revolves around:

- The entire North, Central, and South America are American "lebensraum", and should become parts of "Greater American State"
- The Whites are the "master race". and superior to all other races
- The Jews, Romani, communists, blacks, Latinos, Asians, Arabs, homosexuals, and physically and mentally disabled people are sought to be exterminated, for the sake of White "racial purity".

So, yeah, basically similar with whatever crap that OTL Nazis believed.

Meanwhile in Germany, Weimar Republic continued to be in charge. The rest of the world is pretty much the same.

Soon after the ATL WWII started, America successfully "blitzkrieged" both Canada and Mexico. Britain, France, and Japan declared war, and both Atlantic and Pacific were soon filled with battles, clashes, and raids.

As the War progressed, extermination camps are built throughout Canada, Mexico, and the United States itself...

Now, the question is: will this Nazi America win in the end?

 

[Rudi Maxer]

They will loose, but probably not until being nuked.

 

[Romanus696]

Um, US would never conqueor Canada. The troops from the southern half would die to the greatest generals in history, General Snow and Ice. And Canada was the elite British shock troops during World War 1 and 2

 

[RamscoopRaider]

Define win

The US can take the Americas and hold them against any conventional assault, logistics are just too hard to project across those distances against a hostile force

The US also has twice the Industry of the UK, France and Japan put together and will be fighting closer to it's center of supply, unless the alliance gets a nuke and an intercontinental bomber before the US does, they can't really win

 

[Shaby]

However, American Nazism would probably not have the same goals as the German one, IMHO.

Why would they want boundless expansion, when everything they may need is quite readily available within their borders? In a large part, the Nazi Germany goal was to establish 'strategic freedom' in a sense that they could not be cut off from the sources of raw materials. And let's not forget the land (Lebensraum). Both of these are not the motivation for Nazi-USA, as it has both in abundance.

What would probably happen is that some sort of white-supremacist movement evolves, treats African-Americans and Jews very badly indeed. But I simply do not see them expanding in the image of Germany.

They probably would establish economic and diplomatic primacy over the Latin American countries, set up sympathetic dictatorships and control the resources there in some sort of Greater American Coprosperity scheme.

 

[RiseOfAmerica]

Define win

The US can take the Americas and hold them against any conventional assault, logistics are just too hard to project across those distances against a hostile force

The US also has twice the Industry of the UK, France and Japan put together and will be fighting closer to it's center of supply, unless the alliance gets a nuke and an intercontinental bomber before the US does, they can't really win

This tbh, and wouldn't the US get the nukes first anyways?

Btw why would all these nations declare war on the US? I can see the UK declaring war because of Canada, but why would France and Japan get involved in this war?

 

[The Red]

America just can't keep control of that massive subjugated population without a Draka style 100% Citizen army, which would realistically collapse the American economy and thus the regime.

 

[RamscoopRaider]

America just can't keep control of that massive subjugated population without a Draka style 100% Citizen army, which would realistically collapse the American economy and thus the regime.

No it doesn't, the US has 40-45% of the Western Hemisphere population at the time, it doesn't need that huge a percentage to keep the 1 soldier for every 50-100 occupied ratio, it can maintain a working economy with a greater percentage mobilized, it maintained high economic growth with a greater amount mobilized OTL

However, American Nazism would probably not have the same goals as the German one, IMHO.

Why would they want boundless expansion, when everything they may need is quite readily available within their borders? In a large part, the Nazi Germany goal was to establish 'strategic freedom' in a sense that they could not be cut off from the sources of raw materials. And let's not forget the land (Lebensraum). Both of these are not the motivation for Nazi-USA, as it has both in abundance.

What would probably happen is that some sort of white-supremacist movement evolves, treats African-Americans and Jews very badly indeed. But I simply do not see them expanding in the image of Germany.

They probably would establish economic and diplomatic primacy over the Latin American countries, set up sympathetic dictatorships and control the resources there in some sort of Greater American Coprosperity scheme.

Oh agreed for sure

 

[Lord High Executioner]

This tbh, and wouldn't the US get the nukes first anyways?

Considering the number of people involved who in this timeline would not be
in the US and working on its nuclear program, no.

 

[asnys]

However, American Nazism would probably not have the same goals as the German one, IMHO.

Why would they want boundless expansion, when everything they may need is quite readily available within their borders? In a large part, the Nazi Germany goal was to establish 'strategic freedom' in a sense that they could not be cut off from the sources of raw materials. And let's not forget the land (Lebensraum). Both of these are not the motivation for Nazi-USA, as it has both in abundance.

I don't think it's that hard to come up with a reason for radical ideologues to want to go a-conquering. For example, maybe they want to take Canada and Mexico to ensure no one else can use them as bases to invade the US. *Nazis are not known for their rationality and limited objectives.

For that matter, there's at least one radical American political movement of the 30s that did want to amalgamate the US, Canada, Mexico, and Carribbean into a single superstate for resource and defense reasons (not saying which because they're still around, they have Google News alerts set to go off when you mention their name, and I'd rather not waste energy arguing with them again; PM me if you want to know). They weren't exterminationists or wannabe Nazis by any means, but they also didn't much care if the inhabitants of those countries wanted to join up or not. So I don't think it's implausible that a more unpleasant group would get the same idea.

 

[Michel Van]

Nazi conquer the World ?!

Let Face it, they declare War to British Empire, USA and USSR and were bomb back in stoneage and overrun by Allies troops.
and lucky they surrender in may 1945, other wise the USA had start Nuclear bombing on The Third Reich...

 

[RiseOfAmerica]

Yeah, I could definitely see this Nazi America annexing Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean, they might even try to go for Central America or atleast Panama, but that's about it.

 

[Ian Hathaway]

Yeah, I could definitely see this Nazi America annexing Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean, they might even try to go for Central America or atleast Panama, but that's about it.

While you're at it why not go even further south and invade the whole of South America whilst searching for the Inca gold?

 

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

Um, US would never conqueor Canada. The troops from the southern half would die to the greatest generals in history, General Snow and Ice. And Canada was the elite British shock troops during World War 1 and 2

Most of the Canadian population, especially back then, lives within a few miles of the US border. The ratio is at least 10 Americans for every 1 Canadian, population-wise, and the US has one of the most developed railway infrastructure networks in the entire world. If for any reason a US government or a Canadian government disregards several decades of excellent Canadian-American relations and decides to start a shooting war, suffice to say an American conventional victory is an inevitability. Resistance, while likely to spring up, is also not entirely the worst thing. Canadians are not the Taliban, it's safe to say that plenty of army-age men will not be used to the idea of fighting and rough living as a partisan.

Care to try again?

 

[Romanus696]

Most of the Canadian population, especially back then, lives within a few miles of the US border. The ratio is at least 10 Americans for every 1 Canadian, population-wise, and the US has one of the most developed railway infrastructure networks in the entire world. If for any reason a US government or a Canadian government disregards several decades of excellent Canadian-American relations and decides to start a shooting war, suffice to say an American conventional victory is an inevitability. Resistance, while likely to spring up, is also not entirely the worst thing. Canadians are not the Taliban, it's safe to say that plenty of army-age men will not be used to the idea of fighting and rough living as a partisan.

Care to try again?

1812.
And I bet that the Commonwealth population out number the US 10 to 1.

 

[wcv215]

1812.

You mean when the U.S.'s army was militias, industry was virtually nonexistant, and the population was far closer?

And I bet that the Commonwealth population out number the US 10 to 1.

And they are going to transport all those soldiers how exactly?

Ultimately, the U.S. is going to win this war, maybe not the next one though. The problem here is that their enemies have to transport soldiers across oceans, and getting Japan out of the war will not be difficult. Heck, why is Japan even fighting? They are reliant on the U.S. for oil and scrap metal for their Chinese fiasco. More likely they ally with the U.S. and use the distraction of the American invasion of Canada to attack British territory in the Pacific.

 

[Ancientone]

This tbh, and wouldn't the US get the nukes first anyways?
?

How would an anti-semitic USA build a bomb? 90% of all scientists who worked on the Manhattan project were either Jewish or foreigners on secondment. An "enemy" USA would not have received the military, technical and and scientific windfall from Britain and France that they did in 1940 or the transfer of £10,000 million in cash and gold and £30,000 million in other assets that kickstarted US industry from 1938.
A Nazi US would not just be chucking obvious negroes into camps, but running a witch-hunt under the one-drop rule to see who was a "secret negro", the affect of that on the economy would be dramatic. Let's assume that Nazi-USA managed to occupy a section of Canada and a large chunk of Mexico (where presumably Mexicans without a pure Spanish heritage would be wearing a jalapino coloured star)--what then? Its ships would have no freedom of the seas from the advanced German u-boats and British surface fleet, it could not trade and all would end when long-range jet bombers flying from Iceland or the Azores nuked the East Coast and submarine launched missiles fell upon the West Coast.

 

[Awilla the Hun]

I'd suggest that a Nazi America would provoke such a massive British buildup in Canada that a war between the two would be compltely different to our timeline's equivalent. For one thing I'd doubt whether Britain would abide by the London and Washington Treaties in terms of its naval buildup. The diplomatic system would also be very different.

 

[Seraphiel]

Um, US would never conqueor Canada. The troops from the southern half would die to the greatest generals in history, General Snow and Ice. And Canada was the elite British shock troops during World War 1 and 2

Firstly I believe that winter warfare is over exagerated, that is if the attacker prepares for it and considering the US has Alaska and in general pretty harsh winters i think US forces would be prepared for intense winter warfare. Secondly most of Canadas then small populations lives/lived relatively close to the US border, along wih its industry. Not saying it would be a piece of cake for the Americans but I doubt the war would have lasted longer than one to two months in the conventional phase, guerilla warfare on he otherhand...

 

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

1812.
And I bet that the Commonwealth population out number the US 10 to 1.

Ah, so the Indians are going to do the brunt of the work fighting on behalf of their British overlords for a war in which they have no stake?

And as I mentioned, Halifax is going to be a priority target in any American war with Canada, once Halifax is out, the British cannot reinforce Canada in any meaningful way. The US Pacific Fleet is too formidable for Vancouver to be a viable alternative.

The US Navy will be fighting out of its home terrain with tons of serviceable East Coast ports and the raw industrial might to completely outbuild the British as time goes on. The British, meanwhile, have such esteemed Caribbean ports as Jamaica with which to fight a great power operating in its own waters.

Britain had plans for an Anglo-American War IOTL, they basically involved abandoning Canada and suing for peace. There was no way out of an eventual military defeat of Canada by the United States, the British can send the entire Commonwealth but it will only add to the death toll. Canada was a useful, but not vital outpost of the Empire, its loss was deemed an acceptable price for peace.