NAWPA and the Northern River Reversal Proceed

Inspired by the idea of filling the San Francisco Bay, I pose this question: Under what circumstances could the North American Water and Power Alliance and the Soviet Northern River Reversal projects proceed to completion? What might be the social, economic, and political effects of them?

NAWPA would have diverted water from Alaska and the northern Rockies in Canada to the more arid regions of North America, including the currently parched Colorado River basin.

The Northern River Reversal would have seen rivers flowing into the Arctic from Siberia diverted for irrigation of the dry, Central Asian steppe.
 
Quite the challenge. At least after it is done the folk of Colorado Springs will enjoy watering their lawn grass at will. I used to have a customer whos academic career revolved around water rights. She had a amusing yet sad story about a a consulting job her & a colleague did for the county surrounding Colorado Springs.
 
While I'm not sure the POD for doing it (a Technocracy takeover is a long shot), I can assure that it would create ecological destruction the likes it has been never seen. Think the Aral Sea and the Dust Bowl multiplied by the North America/Russia size of the project.
 
Any Canadian government that signed on to it would be turfed out at the next election - or maybe even have backbenchers revolt, and lose a major vote.
 
NAWAPA, even to a civil engineer like me, is one of the most ridiculous things I can imagine. Beyond its eye-popping costs and vast environmental damage, transporting water thousands of miles isn't a small task, rebuilding the power and transportation infrastructure of Western North America to make this work would be a big job on top of all existing ones and it should also be kept in mind that having water go that distances would probably make it gather such impurities that it would require extensive treatment before it could be used for any municipal or agricultural purpose. Turning a large portion of British Columbia into water reservoirs for the Western United States would (as Dathi correctly points out) result in the immediate removal of any government in Canada idiotic enough to sign on to this (in addition to the problem of me not seeing much in the way of economic benefit for Canada in this), and it's a huge cost for a benefit which would be minimal if any existed at all.
 
Just tell Canadians that the water is going to support agriculture in Palliser's Triangle and the Okanagan Valley. By the time Canadian farmers learn that they have been hoodwinked, water will already be flowing to Colorado.
The tough part will be pumping that much water uphill from Calgary (3,500 feet above sea level).
Denver is 5,000 feet above sea level.
What is the lowest tributary of the Colorado River that is relevant to irrigating California?
 
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Delta Force

Banned
I think this proposal actually enjoyed support in both the United States and Canada for a few years in the 1960s.
 
NAWAPA, even to a civil engineer like me, is one of the most ridiculous things I can imagine. ... ... and it's a huge cost for a benefit which would be minimal if any existed at all.

But, think of the benefits. Some really verdant golf courses around Palm Springs, the Salton Sea at full level or larger for the skiers, free water for the veggie farmers across the southwest :)


I think this proposal actually enjoyed support in both the United States and Canada for a few years in the 1960s.

The good old days of my youth, when anything could be done. Nuclear excavation of cannals anyone?
 
Just tell Canadians that the water is going to support agriculture in Palliser's Triangle and the Okanagan Valley. By the time Canadian farmers learn that they have been hoodwinked, water will already be flowing to Colorado.

There were numerous pitched battles between communities, native tribes and land owners against BC Hydro and Alcan over hydroelectric reservoirs in British Columbia in the 1940s, 50s and early 60s. NAWAPA attempting to be implemented would be that on a giant scale. Hoodwinking anyone about this would be idiocy, they'd see through it in moments.

The only way to get Canada to sign off on this would be to make sure it is enormously beneficial to the Western Provinces. The need to pump water up passes in huge amounts would probably consume all of the electricity create and Western Canada has no real worries about water supplies, so if America wanted any chance at this being built they would have to bribe British Columbia and Alberta on a cosmic scale, which would add to the already-enormous costs of this venture. As cool a project as it is for an engineer, it has no chance of being successful.
 
Dear Mr. TheMan,

Not quite so simple to say that "Western Canada has no problems with water."

While the Wet ... er ... West Coast is a rain forest, because all the moisture gets rained on the Coastal Mountains due to orographic lifting. As soon as you get a hundred miles inland, the soil dries out quickly. Speaking of soil, B.C.'s interior plateau has thin soil, good for little more than forestry. The interior of B.C. is currently burning with wildfires because forests are so dry after little snow fall this past winter (2014-15) and insignificant snowpack.

By the time Pacific Air masses descend the eastern slopes of the Rocky Mountains, they are bone dry. Palliser's Triangle is the driest part of Canada within driving distance of the Continental USA. The last time I flew over Claresholm, Alberta, they had several new reservoirs, all planned to ease the perpetual drought in Southern Alberta. S. Alberta has been dry grassland for as long as humans can remember. The only crop they can grow are grains and grasses and canola. S. Alberta farmers would dearly love to quit worrying about rain fall.

New irrigation projects would expand the variety of crops grown on the Canadian Prairies. If they was any water remaining, B.C. would try to channel it into the dry Okanagan Valley to diversify crops in B.C.'s interior. Lake Okanagan is only 1,120 feet above sea level, so let's start plotting which other mountain rivers we could divert to irrigate the Okanagan Region. Run-off from Okanagan farms would flow into the Columbia River.
Only then would Americans start feuding over Canadian water.
 
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The reasons why NAWAPA couldn't happen historically make sense to me. But I'm curious: could we see something like NAWAPA happen in the future, as the Ogallala dries up and climate change reduces the rainfall over the West?
 
The reasons why NAWAPA couldn't happen historically make sense to me. But I'm curious: could we see something like NAWAPA happen in the future, as the Ogallala dries up and climate change reduces the rainfall over the West?

Reduced rainfall in Canada makes it LESS likely to happen. Why would Canada support it? If anything, they'll want MORE of their water kept for the Prairie provinces.
 
Reduced rainfall in Canada makes it LESS likely to happen. Why would Canada support it? If anything, they'll want MORE of their water kept for the Prairie provinces.

Wouldn't Canada getting a lot of water out of it be part of the deal? I know it was part of the original NAWAPA proposal. The US provides the money and Canada provides the rivers, and they split the water between them, with a little going down to Mexico too for some reason.
 
riggerrob said:
The only crop they can grow are grains and grasses and canola.
They've got no business trying to grow anything there, any more than there should be cotton:eek: in the California desert.:eek::eek::mad: The entire Palliser Triangle should be turned over to ranching, just like the Oklahoma Panhandle. (Plans to draw down the Ogalalla Aquifer to irrigate Texas are insane, unless you like the thought of the entire state of Nebraska subsiding.:eek::eek::eek::eek:)
riggerrob said:
New irrigation projects
Yes, let's suck the aquifers dry far beyond their ability to replenish.:rolleyes:

Here's a thought: if you really want fresh water, why don't you go capture icebergs from Antarctica & tow them north? It makes more sense & can't cost any more...
 
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