Naval Combat in the South African Border War

[Sulemain]

Would it be possible for naval combat to occur in the South African Border War? Between the South African Navy on the one side, and the Cuban/Angolan/Mozambique Navies on the other?

 

[Zheng He]

What was available?

 

[wtw]

Would it be possible for naval combat to occur in the South African Border War? Between the South African Navy on the one side, and the Cuban/Angolan/Mozambique Navies on the other?

Doing this might risk war with the USSR as all three had a pitiful navy if at all. The USSR helped in that way.

 

[NixonTheUsedCarSalesman]

Imagine the Border War escalating to Arab-Israeli or Indo-Pakistani levels of intensity.

Then remember that even they had no real naval combat.

I just don't see how a regional war could have it.

 

[Asp]

This seems like a decent source on the 1980s RSA Navy.

At least in a couple senses, it did happen. The submarine branch was frequently involved in landing commando teams along the Angolan coast and the marines were involved in the fighting. Their naval SOF, 4th Recce Wing, was an extraodinarily competent unit.

Here's an article on a claimed conventional naval raid by the Angolans on one of their ports. It also references a naval attack on Cabinda (an enclave WAY far away from South Africa) as having happened.

 

[Warthog]

Would it be possible for naval combat to occur in the South African Border War? Between the South African Navy on the one side, and the Cuban/Angolan/Mozambique Navies on the other?

Theoretically, but the Angola - Namibia coastline is a long way away from the conflict zone (Cuito Cuanavale, Calueque etc) and not so densely populated

 

[Warthog]

This seems like a decent source on the 1980s RSA Navy.

Extremely one-sided, probably accurate with regard to SA uniforms, units and equipment, but accounts of battles and raids written exclusively from the perspective of one side. Don't even think about the politics. More like a military memoir than history. Can leave you with a seriously skewed perspective. Like thinking you understand the Cuban missile crisis based on Che Guevara's writings alone. Not that he was lying but um

Clue to the bias is in the URL

 

[zert]

The various air forces may play a part but from my uneducated guess SA would come out ahead.

 

[Asp]

Extremely one-sided, probably accurate with regard to SA uniforms, units and equipment, but accounts of battles and raids written exclusively from the perspective of one side. Don't even think about the politics. More like a military memoir than history. Can leave you with a seriously skewed perspective. Like thinking you understand the Cuban missile crisis based on Che Guevara's writings alone. Not that he was lying but um

Clue to the bias is in the URL

I noticed that, but I was just thinking of describing roughly what battles happened and when and where they were. The basic info; I'm sure it's portrayal has its bias, although some turns of phrase like calling the black militant groups "liberation movements" lead to suspect it's not as bad as a lot of South African and Rhodesian military memoirs that are out there.

 

[Warthog]

I noticed that, but I was just thinking of describing roughly what battles happened and when and where they were. The basic info; I'm sure it's portrayal has its bias, although some turns of phrase like calling the black militant groups "liberation movements" lead to suspect it's not as bad as a lot of South African and Rhodesian military memoirs that are out there.

True there's worse - but the thing is you only get facts from one side most of the time. Even "Border War" is a uniquely (old) South African term, as it covers both the Angolan civil war (at least the SA military involvement) and Namibian war for independence

 

[Marius]

This seems like a decent source on the 1980s RSA Navy.

At least in a couple senses, it did happen. The submarine branch was frequently involved in landing commando teams along the Angolan coast and the marines were involved in the fighting. Their naval SOF, 4th Recce Wing, was an extraodinarily competent unit.

Here's an article on a claimed conventional naval raid by the Angolans on one of their ports. It also references a naval attack on Cabinda (an enclave WAY far away from South Africa) as having happened.

Where does it say the Angolans raided an SA port? As in Cabinda, any major port is very from the combat zone, the closest would be Port Nolloth, on the Namibia-SA border, which is very small, only 6 000 people, but the only major coastal settlement between Swakopmund and Saldanha.

 

[Warthog]

The various air forces may play a part but from my uneducated guess SA would come out ahead.

Against Cuba? Not necessarily. I seem to remember issues around radar and so on.

 

[Warthog]

Where does it say the Angolans raided an SA port? As in Cabinda, any major port is very from the combat zone, the closest would be Port Nolloth, on the Namibia-SA border, which is very small, only 6 000 people, but the only major coastal settlement between Swakopmund and Saldanha.

Quite. Navy were occasionally used to move forces around but it was basically a land war with air support

 

[zert]

Against Cuba? Not necessarily. I seem to remember issues around radar and so on.

Fair enough but just how many planes and radar units did Cuba have in Angola or get there when things heat up?

 

[Asp]

Where does it say the Angolans raided an SA port? As in Cabinda, any major port is very from the combat zone, the closest would be Port Nolloth, on the Namibia-SA border, which is very small, only 6 000 people, but the only major coastal settlement between Swakopmund and Saldanha.

Quite. Navy were occasionally used to move forces around but it was basically a land war with air support

Sorry, I worded that badly. Probably should have said, "Here's an Angolan claim the South Africans launched a conventional naval raid on one of their ports."