Nasser's Dream: An Arab Empire

DaHound22

Banned
Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser had a dream of a massive Pan-Arab empire, stretching through the entire Middle East, secular, socialist and strong. This dream was repeated later on by Libyan Colonel Muammar Gaddafi. Now obviously this failed, and the vast majority of us would probably think this totally ASB. But, as unrealistic as it may be, what if it happened? What would the world and specifically the Middle East be like in the modern world? And who would have the best shot at leading this Empire into existence? Nasser? Gaddafi? Arafat? Anyone else? Let me know what you think!
 
As you said; ASB.
Further, there were other attempts at smaller scale federations in the form of the Federation of Arab Republics, United Arab Republic and United Arab States. In each case the federation failed, and that was only with two or three countries at a time.
Nasser appears to be both the greatest asset of Pan Arabism and it's ultimate weakness, as long as he and other strongmen lead they will refuse to share their power there cannot be a federation, and most especially as long as Nasser holds power any Federation would be doomed to centralizing power in Cairo and his hands.
 

DaHound22

Banned
As you said; ASB.

Definitely ASB, but I want to try and keep this thread in "what would the world be like if it did happen", fully expecting that it never actually would

Further, there were other attempts at smaller scale federations in the form of the Federation of Arab Republics, United Arab Republic and United Arab States. In each case the federation failed, and that was only with two or three countries at a time.

I didn't even know this

Nasser appears to be both the greatest asset of Pan Arabism and it's ultimate weakness, as long as he and other strongmen lead they will refuse to share their power there cannot be a federation, and most especially as long as Nasser holds power any Federation would be doomed to centralizing power in Cairo and his hands.

Is there anyone who's a little more flexible who could lead it? Such as a Gaddafi or an Arafat, or even Iran or Saudi Arabia? (if you want to take the "Islamic Empire" way of looking at it)
 
Perhaps some Ba'athist union of Iraq and Syria could have been possible, but not with Saddam and Hafez al-Assad around, as their personalities preclude any kind of Arab unity.
 
I think this sums things up nicely:

Give one Arab a gun you get a massacre. Give two Arabs guns you get a war.
 
Of the major Pan-Arab national leaders, I think Gaafar Nimeiry (Sudan) probably couldn't put a union together (who could?) But is skilled enough to have a chance of keeping it together for a while.

Ben Bella (Algeria) was a decent leader but isn't secure enough at home and his country is far removed historically and physically from anyone else who could conceivably be part of the union. Additionally, he couldn't speak "proper" Arabic which was embarrassing for him when he addressed Pan-Arab meetings.
 
The issues will arise over capitals perhaps, as each state had their own Great City with thousands of years of history to most. With Nasser or another, perhaps managing to get some compromise early on that has the West Bank and Negev made into a Palestinian state or added to a Republic of Jordan would be deemed acceptable, since the Israelis were hoping that other countries would annex the Palestinian areas and make their nationality as a concept vanish. Then attach Lebanon, Yemen, yada yada and you have lots of Arabs and those they decided to classify as Arab because a lot of people in the area were Muslims of one sort or another. Could just try overthrowing the Saudis of course or at least breaking off Hejaz, so as to reach the full borders of the Mamluk Sultanate. Well, still a bit of land in Sudan and Libya needed for that, but it is a start.
 
Is there anyone who's a little more flexible who could lead it? Such as a Gaddafi or an Arafat, or even Iran or Saudi Arabia? (if you want to take the "Islamic Empire" way of looking at it)


Iran is not Arab and I can't think of anyone except maybe an extremely dominant Shi'i Iraq joining in a union with them. The closest you could get with Iran would be a state perhaps union with Iraq, Yemen (Ahmad bin Yahya isn't so crazy and his son Muhammad al-Badr remains in power), Bahrain (assuming the Shi'i somehow take control) and Oman (out of pressure from being squeezed on both sides). This is most likely ASB however, why would Oman or Yemen join and be marginalized and really become a backwater. It would only be conceivable for Bahrain and Iraq.

Saudi Arabia has the potential at forming a sort of Islamic Union between states, but this really wouldn't be pan Arab, it would most likely encompass nations not Arab at all. This in particular was covered slightly awhile back in a tl with a Saudi-Israeli conflict, but nothing came much from the tl.

With the leaders you mention, it becomes more and more difficult to entice Saudi Arabia or Oman to join this Union. None of the kings of Saudi favored or had an liking for Gaddafi especially, his criticism of the monarchies in the gulf was far too divisive.

EDIT: Further, Gaddafi is one of the few leaders (contemporary) who almost all Ulema agree was Taghoot (one who exceeds the limit and outside his jurisdiction in terms of rulership).
 
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Is there anyone who's a little more flexible who could lead it? Such as a Gaddafi or an Arafat, or even Iran or Saudi Arabia? (if you want to take the "Islamic Empire" way of looking at it)
The Saudis had been in the deserts away from the Ottomans for centuries, and the Iranians have managed to keep the a state for two thousand years. It wouldn't fly to lose a great degree of independence.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
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I think this sums things up nicely:

Give one Arab a gun you get a massacre. Give two Arabs guns you get a war.

This should probably be a Ban based on the casual degree of blatant racism in a one liner and your short time here.

Your other posts however, seem to be sane, so we will ratchet back a step.

You are kicked for a week. During that time you will be unable to post.

I strongly advise you to avoid racist postings in the future. This is a one chance sort of violation.
 
Saudi Arabia has the potential at forming a sort of Islamic Union between states, but this really wouldn't be pan Arab, it would most likely encompass nations not Arab at all. This in particular was covered slightly awhile back in a tl with a Saudi-Israeli conflict, but nothing came much from the tl.

Curse my short attention span.:D This and my Nader Shah ATL are on the to do list.
 
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