NASA without Braun

A few things to ponder. What role do computers and other electronic developments play in the space race? If I remember correctly, computers were mainly a US development.

Regarding German high tech versus the lower tech levels of the UK and USA, the UK and USA were able to field motorized armies in the later part of WW-2, while Germany still had a lot of horse-drawn units.

Is it plausible for the USA and UK, working seperately, to achieve the same scientific and technological success that they historically reached by working together? I'm thinking of things like radar, jet engines, atomic bombs.
 

Beer

Banned
A few things to ponder. What role do computers and other electronic developments play in the space race? If I remember correctly, computers were mainly a US development.
Yes, the Allies had a lead there, but considering that K. Zuse´s computers were not that far behind the US, it will help the US close the "rocket-gap" a little more while Germany tries to close the "comp-gap".

Regarding German high tech versus the lower tech levels of the UK and USA, the UK and USA were able to field motorized armies in the later part of WW-2, while Germany still had a lot of horse-drawn units.
(Facepalms) Apples and Oranges! The Wehrmacht was much more motorized at the beginning of the war. Blitzkrieg lives from mobile forces. The Wehrmacht you describe is the bled dry remnant of 45. The losses esp. late in the war after summer 44 made the return to horses needed. It was not low tech, Germany had developed lots of vehicles for motorized/mechanized warfare, it were the losses from being swamped by enemy forces.

Is it plausible for the USA and UK, working seperately, to achieve the same scientific and technological success that they historically reached by working together? I'm thinking of things like radar, jet engines, atomic bombs.
Yes, but years later. As I wrote to Dahti, I don´t doubt their brainpower, just beginning nearer the bottom of development in Rocketry/jet engines (and at least the UK had the jet engine around the same time as Germany)on your own instead of just stealing the work of others will take much more time.
 
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I think that Germany would have a large initial lead, but if it was a matter of prestige/absolute necessity, the US and USSR would catch up fairly quickly. The US would almost certainly end up far out in front by the end of the 60s, because of one simple fact of this scenario: both Germany and the USSR will have to spend enourmous amounts on multimillion strong conventional armies, since they happen to share a continent. The US, sitting isolated in North America, will have to spend much less on its army because there is no need to; it has no land borders with its enemies. Its army can therefore be much smaller. That, combined with the US's position as the dominant industrial power in the world, means that the US can allocate to its rocket programs several times the amounts that Germany and the USSR together can muster. That more than anything else will lead to eventual US dominance in space. Germany would have the lead for the first decade or so and will probably have the first ICBMs and satellites. But after the initial successes, the US will take the lead and never lose it.
 
Sheesh, this thread is old. I really only put it up just to hear myself talk.

Anyway, I'll throw Charlie Bossart and Jack Parsons out there for discussion.
Parsons didn't do that much beyond the JATO...HOWEVER he would be a major pusher for space travel...and have all sorts of wonderful weird things that would make him a great AH character.
I do have an idea for a different AH where Taft becomes President, Heinlein gets a job with Taft and recommends Parsons and Company to help with space flight...and the first US Rocket to reach space is "Pan-1", with the launch accompanied by Parsons reciting the "Hymn to Pan" (Out of earshot of most people, except perhaps a documentary cameraman...The footage is supressed...)...
(Parsons was one of the members of the GALCIT program I mentioned earlier, along with Tsien-Hsue Chien (Later expelled from the US, went to the PRC, taught Mao science and designed the Silkworm missile, among others. He died not long ago), Frank Malina (Had his passport revoked due to alleged Communist ties, wound up working for UNESCO (thanks to Julian Huxley) and helping found the Kinetic Art movement), Apollo M. O. Smith (Apart from his name (given by a mythology-mad dad) and his wearing an air-conditioned pith helmet he was normal, especially in comparison to others.) and Theodore von Karman (Who could be an excellent candidate for leader of an alternate NASA...).)
 

Beer

Banned
Hi, imperialaquila!

Your scenario is a bit flawed: Even if the US army stays smaller, the US has to pour lots of money in an arm of the military, that both Germany and the USSR don´t have to in these numbers. The Navy. Germany and Russia are traditional Landpowers, most of their military spending goes to the army and airforce. Being good at sea is a bonus, so both nations need only navies which can threaten the US shipping, not total supremacy of the seas. This is a lot cheaper! Despite being a large country, the US is more of a sea power. Free way for their shipping, be it civil or military, is essential for US power projection. It might surprise you, but the typical carrier fleets are really expensive, offsetting most savings made from the smaller army.
Yes, the US is the largest single economy (and will be even in TTL), but is not so far away from Germany (esp. since TTL´s Germany is even larger than OTL) and to a lesser degree from Russia who are both industrial powers, too. Germany does not need to outproduce the US, but just to keep the technological lead and a sizeable rocket force.
 
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