Napoleonic Israel

So before the battle of Acre in 1799, Napoleon planned a proclamation (though there is historiographic dispute) to the Jews of the region and at large to establish a Jewish state in Palestine. It's been speculated that this was intended to gain local support for the campaign and establish a state that would help represent French interests in the region. Of course Napoleon ended up losing the battle and the whole campaign and the idea was scrapped. So what if Napoleon wins at Acre and makes a widespread and publicized declaration planning to establish a Jewish state in Palestine in the aftermath of the battle? Is there any chance at all of a state being established? Even if Napoleon is still forced out by the British and Ottomans, I still imagine there would be significant consequences in the region. Could it lead to an earlier spike in the support for Zionism?
 
It would stupid idea since it would turn his whole Middle eastern campaign into a religious war causing stronger resistance and revolts in Egypt.
 
The question is: Would the Jews want to go there? Even today, there are some orthodox ones who don't want to go to Israel because their Messiah obviously hasn't come yet.

For comparison: In my Chaos TL, a Napoleon equivalent does this, after his New Roman Empire conquered all of North Africa - he only wants to replace the north African Jews by Christian (that is, Imperial Catholic) European settlers.
 
The question is: Would the Jews want to go there? Even today, there are some orthodox ones who don't want to go to Israel because their Messiah obviously hasn't come yet.

You do not need 100% as it was in 1949 you had only a small percentage and it was enough. However, it took years to get them there.

Napoleon does not have it plus it conflicts with his and the French revolution plans to integrate Jews into Western society as individuals.

The other issue is that Jews in Napoleon's period were overall fairly backward. It is only later that the enlightenment started. I doubt they are going to be able to make much of a state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskalah
 
Its not all that viable. The Jewish population in the region is not that large, and not politically engaged. It was mostly staunchly religious communities.

If Napoleon wanted to proclaim some kind of Jewish puppet state, his best opportunity would be to do so in Belarus during his 1812 campaign into Russia that could have been much more successful had he decided to plan it out as a two year campaign centered around political liberation of the border regions to force the Tsar to have to attack west, where Napoleon would have been able to decisively defeat the Russians.

Belarus during the time period was almost 20% Jewish, and the local Russian and Ruthenian populations were illiterate at rates far greater than the Jewish population, as well as being politically dormant for the most part. If Napoleon wanted to do it, he probably could have. Of course, this might have annoyed his Polish and Austrian allies.
 
The Ottoman Empire ruled over Christian peoples of various ethnicities and varieties, and under the millet system it gave representation to the Abrahamic religions. A resurrected Jewish state is thus not a direct challenge to Islam. Of course, Napoleon would have been planning to carve it off from the Ottomans, but the basic rule established in recent decades would have been that Abrahamic peoples had validity under Islamic law. We tend to look at Islam versus the Rest in post-1945 eyes, but the establishment of a Jewish state would not have seemed to be a direct challenge to Islam per se.
 
I'm pretty sure most arabs had a low opinion of the local fellahin, so the implications of this would be interesting.

Will Napoleon stop at conquering Palestine and perhaps Libya? The Jordan River Valley, Golan, and Lebanon/Anti-Lebanon mountains are fairly defensible I suppose.

What does "in the region" mean? A Jewish state comprised of Acre, Galilee, Safed, and Tiberias likely wouldn't piss off too many locals. All of Palestine, a bit more so.
 
I'm pretty sure most arabs had a low opinion of the local fellahin, so the implications of this would be interesting.

Will Napoleon stop at conquering Palestine and perhaps Libya? The Jordan River Valley, Golan, and Lebanon/Anti-Lebanon mountains are fairly defensible I suppose.

What does "in the region" mean? A Jewish state comprised of Acre, Galilee, Safed, and Tiberias likely wouldn't piss off too many locals. All of Palestine, a bit more so.
Probably not the entirety of Palestine, but hard to imagine a proposal that doesn't include Jerusalem.
 
Its not all that viable. The Jewish population in the region is not that large, and not politically engaged. It was mostly staunchly religious communities.

That's why my suggestion: Get Jews immigrating there. You'll need some hundred thousand at least. - Not saying it'd be a good thing, although things for the Jews in my Chaos TL turned out better than IOTL.
 
The Ottoman Empire ruled over Christian peoples of various ethnicities and varieties, and under the millet system it gave representation to the Abrahamic religions. A resurrected Jewish state is thus not a direct challenge to Islam. Of course, Napoleon would have been planning to carve it off from the Ottomans, but the basic rule established in recent decades would have been that Abrahamic peoples had validity under Islamic law. We tend to look at Islam versus the Rest in post-1945 eyes, but the establishment of a Jewish state would not have seemed to be a direct challenge to Islam per se.

It wouldent... if it dident contain large numbers of Muslims who,by definition, must be in a politically and culturally status beneath the Jews for the state to be meaningfully be defined as such. Autonomy for Jews under the Sovergeinty of a Muslim state? No problem. Muslims having to submit to a law code based on Jewish customs? No so much.
 
Probably not the entirety of Palestine, but hard to imagine a proposal that doesn't include Jerusalem.

Safed and Tiberias are the holiest cities in Judaism after Jerusalem and Hebron. Ottoman Court Jew, Lord of Tiberias, and later Grand Duke of Nazos Jospeh Nasi got a plan approved by the Sultan to settle Jews in Tiberias and Safed OTL in 1561. The Jews of the Papal States were to be relocated there, but when war broke out between the Ottomans and Venetians the plan was abandoned.

A Jewish Duchy of Galilee wou'dn't be that implausible.
 
A French-supported Palestine (as this state will probably be called) is a non starter if the British navy controls the Mediterranean.

It would stupid idea since it would turn his whole Middle eastern campaign into a religious war causing stronger resistance and revolts in Egypt.

No better way to give Selim III's invoction of Jihad in his declaration of war weight...

I don't know...the Palestinians at the time were not exactly known for their love of the High Porte, and that might well change in the event of a protracted war in the region caused not by Nappy's invasion but by the Ottoman counter-invasion (see below for an outline of how to make that perception happen).

The question is: Would the Jews want to go there? Even today, there are some orthodox ones who don't want to go to Israel because their Messiah obviously hasn't come yet.

Were converts considered "fully Jewish" by this point? If so, a fanciful but possibly not totally impossible TL sees Nappy converting to Judaism and being seen at least by some as Messiah.

That's why my suggestion: Get Jews immigrating there. You'll need some hundred thousand at least. - Not saying it'd be a good thing, although things for the Jews in my Chaos TL turned out better than IOTL.

For a possibility on how to do this:

1) Zahir al-Umar's campaigns are much more successful, resulting in a de facto independent Palestine, the Emirate of Jerusalem/Zaydanid Emirate. emerging with Russian support. Rather than/in addition to the Pale of Settlement, Ekaterina II "encourages" her Jewish subjects to emigrate...and if it's educated, well-off Jews who are making the trip primarily, and are submitting to the authority of the Zaydanid Emirate, the Emir and the Arab population won't be making a big fuss. By the time Nappy comes around, the Jewish population is roughly 25% and disproportionately concentrated in the cities. By European standards they might be "backwards" but if they're allowed to actually engage with society and develop I imagine you'll see a vibrant community emerge. And, as all of history up until the 1700s shows, you don't exactly need Enlightenment philosophy to create a functional state.

2) Later on, al-Umar's successor(s) align with the Brits for whatever reason against Nappy, leading to him setting up a Jewish state as an alternative authority in the region, proclaiming the Grand Duchy of Palestine.

It wouldent... if it dident contain large numbers of Muslims who,by definition, must be in a politically and culturally status beneath the Jews for the state to be meaningfully be defined as such. Autonomy for Jews under the Sovereignty of a Muslim state? No problem. Muslims having to submit to a law code based on Jewish customs? No so much.

Presumably, given the time period, the government would be secular at least in name; knowing Nappy, he's likely to appoint one of his family members as duke. They can probably avoid the issue for a while via a continuation of the Ottoman millet system, but yeah, it likely won't be the most stable affair.
 
I don't know...the Palestinians at the time were not exactly known for their love of the High Porte, and that might well change in the event of a protracted war in the region caused not by Nappy's invasion but by the Ottoman counter-invasion
Doesn't mean they would want a Jewish state established anymore then in the 1900s
 
Doesn't mean they would want a Jewish state established anymore then in the 1900s

I could see a 'state for Jews' rather than 'Jewish State' looking more attractive than the High Porte, depending on how it's set up and assuming that that isn't the alpha and omega of the Duchy. I would argue that the distrust fueled by Sykes-Picot and the Partition plans has made the Arabs view the situation as much more us vs. them than in previous eras.
 
I could see a 'state for Jews' rather than 'Jewish State' looking more attractive than the High Porte, depending on how it's set up and assuming that that isn't the alpha and omega of the Duchy. I would argue that the distrust fueled by Sykes-Picot and the Partition plans has made the Arabs view the situation as much more us vs. them than in previous eras.

I'd argue it was the buying up of land by Jewish landlords who disrupted/displaced the old social conditions of the poor Arab by displacing them from "their" land for the sake of settlement/development by Jewish settlers/communities that did far more to alienate the populous, and if we're going by Nappy's and Revolutionary French record land reform/confiscation and resale in a codified recorded manner to raise funds is going to happen. Add that to the conscription that's going to be required to fill the ranks of the local army...

The Vendee, Guriella War in Spain, Tyrol, Federalist Revolts... need I go on? 19th century peasents don't like getting new landlords interested in making a profit off their purchase and getting crammed into uniforms. Or messing with the local clergy.
 
I'd argue it was the buying up of land by Jewish landlords who disrupted/displaced the old social conditions of the poor Arab by displacing them from "their" land for the sake of settlement/development by Jewish settlers/communities that did far more to alienate the populous, and if we're going by Nappy's and Revolutionary French record land reform/confiscation and resale in a codified recorded manner to raise funds is going to happen. Add that to the conscription that's going to be required to fill the ranks of the local army...

The Vendee, Guriella War in Spain, Tyrol, Federalist Revolts... need I go on? 19th century peasents don't like getting new landlords interested in making a profit off their purchase and getting crammed into uniforms. Or messing with the local clergy.

I think, to oversummarize, the question is whether it'd be a Spain or a Poland. There are TLs that might well give you the latter. Remember, Nappy's puppet doesn't have to be great, it just has to be better than the Porte.
 
Zero chance.

Like no chance in hell. The fact that the migration of Jews by the French is problematic when the RN dominates the Seas and that large resources are needed to keep such fragile state alive. Especially with an overly hostile Muslim population and the Ottoman State.

Yeah no, Nappy won't spend more resources on a late 18th/early 19th century Israel far away in the Levant rather than Italy and Germany.
 
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