Napoleonic-era generals not killed on the battlefield

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Craufurd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Pakenham
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ross_(general)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Picton

So, WI the 19th C British Army hadn't lost outstanding officers such as Black Bob at Ciudad Rodrigo in 1812, Ross at Baltimore in 1814, Pakenham at New Orleans in 1815, or Picton at Waterloo ? How much more could they have contributed had they not been KIA on the field of battle ? Of course, there's also for the RN WI Nelson hadn't been killed at Trafalgar...

btw, pls feel free to add any other such generals who were KIA during the Napoleonic period...
 
Let's begin with Lannes, shall we? Victory's cherished child.

And how about Catelineau? Paris falls to the Great Cathiloc and Royal Army.

Kleber? What would the Old Lion have done if not murdered.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Craufurd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Pakenham
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ross_(general)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Picton

So, WI the 19th C British Army hadn't lost outstanding officers such as Black Bob at Ciudad Rodrigo in 1812, Ross at Baltimore in 1814, Pakenham at New Orleans in 1815, or Picton at Waterloo ? How much more could they have contributed had they not been KIA on the field of battle ? Of course, there's also for the RN WI Nelson hadn't been killed at Trafalgar...

btw, pls feel free to add any other such generals who were KIA during the Napoleonic period...

With the exception of Ross of whom I know very little, the sad answer is probably not very much, at least for those gentlemen. Picton was very shabbily treated in the period between Napoleon's first abdication and Waterloo, being effectively sidelined and denied a peerage - the highest ranking officer so to be denied. Apparently although he was recognised as a fine fighting soldier he was judged to be the wrong sort for high rank in the class-obsessed peacetime army. I have no doubt that similar fate would befall Black Bob if he lived - though like Picton he would be recalled for the Waterloo campaign, when capable brutes were once again required. Pakenham has the opposite problem - his rise owed everything to social status (he was Wellington's nephew) and little if anything to natural talent (at most he was a reasonably capable staff officer if someone else was giving the orders). If he lived he would be most unlikely to achieve great things. As for Nelson, his injuries were such that he probably wouldn't have lived much longer regardless of how Trafalgar went, and there'd be nothing for him to do after Trafalgar anyway.

Fhaessig's point about French generals is well noted, to his list I would particularly like to add Desaix, who's death was a major loss for the French and who, if he had lived, was one of the few men who might have prevented the rise of Napoleon. The butterflies of which would be impressive...
 
Taking the Nelson side note, he'd probably end up dieing quite lonely and unrecognised, having crushed the French sea. While alive, his scandalous relationship with Mrs. Hamilton overshadowed his victories.
 
Taking the Nelson side note, he'd probably end up dieing quite lonely and unrecognised, having crushed the French sea. While alive, his scandalous relationship with Mrs. Hamilton overshadowed his victories.

Yep, you have to say he went out at the top....

Also, General Antoine Lasalle.....killed at Wagram 1809.
 
Yep, you have to say he went out at the top....

Also, General Antoine Lasalle.....killed at Wagram 1809.

It has been suggested Nelson deliberately set out, or at least privately wanted, to die at Trafalgar, sealing his image as the great dashing admiral.
 
Marshall Jean Lannes, killed at Aspern-Elsing.

Marshall Jean-Baptiste Besseires, killed by cannon fire in 1813.

Marshall Josef Poniatowski, drowned at Leipzig.

Marshall Louis Berthier, fell from a window in 1815.

Lannes and Besseires were two of napoleon's greatest marshalls. Poniatowski wasn't to shoddy himself, and was rather important in Poland. Berthier was critical as Napoleon's chief of staff. If they live (and in berthier's case, fight), who knows what might happen?

Then there are a host of potentially great junior officers cut down to soon (starting with Louis Desaix and Jean Baptiste Kleber).
 
It has been suggested Nelson deliberately set out, or at least privately wanted, to die at Trafalgar, sealing his image as the great dashing admiral.


Really?......I'd like to find out more about that theory. Anyway, he was certainly successful in creating an image and was legendary in his own liftime. He didn't exactly need an early 19th Century Simon Cowell to make him famous.....The pic below just goes to shows how his death sealed the image and the legend certainly lived on...

503px-Apotheosis_of_Nelson.jpg
 
Really?......I'd like to find out more about that theory. Anyway, he was certainly successful in creating an image and was legendary in his own liftime. He didn't exactly need an early 19th Century Simon Cowell to make him famous.....The pic below just goes to shows how his death sealed the image and the legend certainly lived on...

IIRC the theory is that Nelson sought out to find a heroic death at trafalgar, for various reasons (posterity, his own future in the service, fate). His entering battle in full uniform (which would have been distinctive, with all the medals and all) was an attempt to draw the enemy fire.
 
In the event of Ross not dying... seems likely he'd still be in charge come the New Orleans campaign, thus keeping Pakenham in Europe.

Ross also probably wouldn't have attacked Jackson's insurrmountable line. Though that campaign really wouldn't matter for anyone save Andrew Jackson, who'd have to work a bit harder to get to the White House.
 
Kleber? What would the Old Lion have done if not murdered.

I seem to recall one study of the period which suggested that it was Kleber's death (to disease? Do I recall correctly?) which allowed Napoleon to become so prominent. While he was still around, La Directoire somewhat favoured him over the Little Corporal, and not without due cause.
 
IIRC the theory is that Nelson sought out to find a heroic death at trafalgar, for various reasons (posterity, his own future in the service, fate). His entering battle in full uniform (which would have been distinctive, with all the medals and all) was an attempt to draw the enemy fire.

While I agree that Nelson may have had a death wish at Trafalgar, his wearing full uniform in battle was not indicative of that. He customarily did that, both because he was a somewhat vain man, and because he felt it inspired his men to see him that way.

He did leave behind a written journal entry, in the form of a prayer, which, while not explicitly stating he had a death wish, did sound very much like a man who was reconciling himself to an impending death.
 
While I agree that Nelson may have had a death wish at Trafalgar, his wearing full uniform in battle was not indicative of that. He customarily did that, both because he was a somewhat vain man, and because he felt it inspired his men to see him that way.

He did leave behind a written journal entry, in the form of a prayer, which, while not explicitly stating he had a death wish, did sound very much like a man who was reconciling himself to an impending death.

Yeah. IMO the evidence for the theory is potentially viable, but rather circumstantial. I dont think that it would be going too far to say that Nelson at least accepted that he faced the strong possibility of death in battle (when you consider his history in previous actions, his personality, his last words, etc...), but it is a somewhat flimsy basis from which to claim he activly sought to die at Trafalgar.
 
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