Napoleon is exiled in America

Eurofed

Banned
My pardon sir, I did miss that one sentence, and I haven't had the pleasure of reading your TL yet.

Never mind, sorry if I came hard on you, but posts that ignore the OP terms of the issue can be rather frustrating and exasperating. :)

So under the premise you just set forth there. So I'm assuming that no matter how badly Britain and Spain are trounced Prussia and Russia aren't going to be touching their colonies. So that's largely up to the US then. As the man who faught Britain and all of Europe head on for a number of years he may well be well recieved in the US. And there could be call for an American Empire... the question is will the US put up with it since they're the power in the area now.

Andrew Jackson especially comes to mind. As much as the hates the "Dons" is Napoleon going to be an improvement in his mind? Especially if he's carving out territory in the US's percieved sphere of influence? If the US annexed British North America or even just some parts thereof, there's going to be even more calls for filibusters in the South, just so they can expand slavery to keep up. If they can't, it could result in an earlier civil war.

Throw Napoleon in a potential civil war scneario, involved in any which way... that could be interesting...

Interesting points indeed, that somehow vibe with my own ideas, although I think it is rather too early for a potential civil war. However, it is rather too early for Andrew Jackson, in the late 1810s he's a general who win a famous battle is just starting a promishing political career.
 
Except that IOTL he didn't die an heroic death on the battlefield, he spent his last years feeling miserable, a caged lion under house arrest in a faroff tiny island, and he died of cancer anyway. Spending his last days a free man in America, whether he gets his last hurrah conquering Mexico, or just enjoying a golden sunset as a free man that spends his time lecturing American admirer seems a rather better prespective. His death on the battlefield might make the Bourbon restoration more probable, and that's not an outcome I want.



Actually my Ameriwank TL seems to receive quite a widespread consensus as plausible. :p;):cool::D



I look and see that Puerto Rico is a rather freer, wealthier, more democratic, and generally happier place than Cuba or Venezuela, and I'm sure that Simon would have agreed with me. And he would have had a wholly different perspective if US troops had spilled their blood to free Gran Colombia, and in 1829 he had been a US Senator.

You will Never learn ins't it??? =)

1. Again the Butterflies.. you ignore that for your wanking dreams(like Prussia Jumping so easily to war... they jump was for british promise and favor not for Russian one... and we know what happen)

2. Because a lot of People here are American or have your own mentality than our problems was by not being Gringos.. Our Problem was for Imperialism.. and in a America Society my father is enought 'Black'(look the term Trigeño) to suffer racism

3. I'm from Colombia.. and we love oru country all with the situation(and we have an incident called Panama if you don't know), and Puerto Rico economic Situation is relative... againt not for nothing they change a master for another one..

And you take of contest the Bolivar letter: Here in the Proto Gran Colombia a lot of proto-fillbuster, and he make that sentence than the true intention of the American and the history prove to be Right...
Read the Massacre de las Bananeras... that is sad history in the history of my Lander.

Again i don't want to be banned... be happy wanking.. even my Timeline have some pausabilyt problems..
 

Eurofed

Banned
1. Again the Butterflies.. you ignore that for your wanking dreams(like Prussia Jumping so easily to war... they jump was for british promise and favor not for Russian one... and we know what happen)

Sorry, your writing style makes your point about Prussia incomphrehensible to me. :confused: Sorry but both your prose and the one of Van gets really obscure sometimes.

2. Because a lot of People here are American or have your own mentality than our problems was by not being Gringos.. Our Problem was for Imperialism.. and in a America Society my father is enought 'Black'(look the term Trigeño) to suffer racism

The problems I see with America's (or Europe's) behavior in the other continents are IMO wholly and exclusively related to colonial exploitation, not imperialism, which by itself I regard as a positive force. But it is much more difficult to exploit an area that is part of your own polity with equal right. As for racism, in the modern First World immigrants from poorer countries get it out of nativist resentment. Hispanic immigrants in America get it, Middle Eastern and Magrebine immigrants in Europe get it, East Asian immigrants to Japan get it, despite being wholly different "races". But with a few exceptions, immigrant minorities that were assimilated long ago do not suffer it anymore: in the 19th century Irish, Italian, Slav, Chinese immigrants to America got the same amount of racism Hispanic immigrants got toady, but nowadays only the batshit loonies discriminate them. If a sizable Spanish country had united to America in the 19th century, it would have been gotten quite assimilated by now.

3. I'm from Colombia.. and we love oru country all with the situation(and we have an incident called Panama if you don't know), and Puerto Rico economic Situation is relative... againt not for nothing they change a master for another one..

<Shrug> You happen to discuss with one guy whose main delight in AH is to leave as few countries on a world map as possible, remember. As long as everyone gets equal civil and political rights, you are not ever going to convince me that nationalism is a positive force. I can't wait for my country to be merged in the United States of Europe, so I think I'm impartial enough to be justified and extend my wishes to countries of other continents.

And you take of contest the Bolivar letter: Here in the Proto Gran Colombia a lot of proto-fillbuster, and he make that sentence than the true intention of the American and the history prove to be Right...
Read the Massacre de las Bananeras... that is sad history in the history of my Lander.

I suppose sooner or later I can write a TL where Gran Colombia survives and becomes a great power. For now, Glen DSA TL where this happens has my best wishes. But frankly, Latin America saw a lot of useless and harmful Balkanization that I'd wipe out if I can.
 
We have to remember that Napoleon was never much of a linguist, he knew French and some Italian, if he were to come to the US, he would not be able to jump into the political scene right away, assuming he'd want to at all. He had lived a full life, he'd have probably have settled down in New Orleans, wrote his memoirs and lived in quiet retirement like his brother Joseph did. Its not particularly interesting, but it is what is much more likely to have happened.
 
As much the idea of Napoleon finding a way to reach the Americas without being captured by the British and become monarch of Mexico is appealing, I think he'll either live a quiet life in the Americas getting someone to write his memoirs and a catalog of all his battle tactics and strategies or help the Latin Americans in their war of independence as like an advisor of sorts.
 
I agree with most of what Sa'id Mohammed said, with the addition that the reason that I agree is that as much as Napoleon was a Corsican, he defined his conquests by France in some way, i'm not sure you can characterise it as a leader who found a vehicle that suited him. So in that sense, out of a quasi-nationalism i'm not sure the idea of conquest in the Americas would quite have suited him.

Also, it would be nice if nationalism could be kept out of this sort of discussion, I realise that i'm probably asking hell to freeze over but the entire point of discussions like this, for me, is simply a matter of curiousity and following potential butterflies.

It would be an interestingly POD to have Napoleon as a prototype Castro/Guevara, I think.
 
We have to remember that Napoleon was never much of a linguist, he knew French and some Italian, if he were to come to the US, he would not be able to jump into the political scene right away, assuming he'd want to at all. He had lived a full life, he'd have probably have settled down in New Orleans, wrote his memoirs and lived in quiet retirement like his brother Joseph did. Its not particularly interesting, but it is what is much more likely to have happened.


Napoleon hangs out in New Orleans!

Okay, I'd pay to see that :)

I'd give the place on the outside two to three years to restore his morale to capacity for functional hedonism.
 
Whatever would have happened would certainly have been a more just and pleasant fate for him than rotting in exile on Saint Helena. I think he would have lived a quiet life writing his memoirs and strategies.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Actually my Ameriwank TL seems to receive quite a widespread consensus as plausible. :p;):cool::D
No it hasn't. People've only been talking about how cool it would be if Napoleon came to America and had wacky adventures, very little mention of your scenario outside of that has been brushed on. Hell, it got to the point where you complained that nobody was reading the OP.
a) The USA own Canada since the ARW, have a much better military than OTL in the 1810s, and hence kicked British butt in the War of 1812 left, right, and center.
You've really gotta explain how this is possible. The British beat the USA in the War of 1812 with its arms tied behind its back with a blindfold on. Even if the US army was good enough to drag significant British attention away from the Continent, then they'd still likely get trounced since Wellington would be in charge and a much larger number of British troops would be sent to Canada.
b) Some Libertadores (such as Bolivar) and the US are very cozy, so the Yankee expand the War of 1812 to an intervention in Latin America against Spain.
Nivek explained Bolivar's stance on Americans. The idea that the US could muster the naval and/or land forces required for any sort of intervention in Latin America, much less a successful one, is ridiculous.
c) Napoleon is down and out, but Britain and Austria lost the tailend of the Napoleonic Wars to Russia and Prussia.
What in the hell...why do Britain and Austria start fighting Russia and Prussia?
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Napoleon hangs out in New Orleans!

Okay, I'd pay to see that :)

I'd give the place on the outside two to three years to restore his morale to capacity for functional hedonism.
I'm loving the idea of a moribund Napoleon hanging out in dilapidated formerly upper-class bordellos, drinking and whoring his miseries away as he struggles to overcome the crippling writer's block impeding the completion of his memoirs.

I can see it now...

napoleon-scratching.jpg
Assire-Le%2Bchoix%2Bw:c.jpg


Actually, can I call dibs on this idea? I think I'd really like writing a short story about it :D
 
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thanks for the support Wolfpaw, again this thread was proposal(is a lie, was a misthread of a similar one about making a stronger mexico since this revolution than end with Napoleon become the Mexican Emperour.:D) and even with the weak basis of this timeline(ASB one)...

Again... now Napoleon is a defeated man... and he know it... he know in Saint Helena that is foolish mistake cost him all, and resign to dead as a dog because he can't die as a hero.

And Prussia in that Era is most weaker than ever.. the Over-Nobilization of the Armed forces make calamities with the officer.. and that is the same problem with Russia... how the Czar can still keeping a war if the fight again the British(who can blockade the Russias an the German in WW1) And the Austiras plus the Frenchmen... the word ASB is Small one
 
What if for some reason, after his first exile, Napoleon finds it impossible for whatever reason to return to France and instead turns towards the New World?

Since he would be too vulberable to British interests in the United States, he instead heads to New Spain.

By 1815, the large scale revolution was over in the New Spain, but several revolutionaries remained and continued to wage a war of guerilla against the Spanish authority, hiding in the mountains and jungles of Mexico.

What would happen if Napoleon arrived, and together with remmants of the Grand Armee, plus Mexicans who supported Hidalgo's and Morelos' movements and the remaining Mexican revolutionaries, defeated the Spanish in a series of battles and ultimately took control of Mexico City and proclaimed Mexico's independence from Spain before 1817?

Then he goes and helps the remaining independence movements in the Americas, covertly supported by the United States.

Butterflies?
 
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