Napoleon invades England

[DGNT]

Let us say that, via some genius amoung the French admirality, France breaks the English blockade over a lot of the French ports. France then proceedes to, in the resulting chaos, organize a fleet to sail soliders across the channel, and lands in England.
What affect do you think this would have on the English population? Would they be shocked into submission? Would they rise in revolt? A little of both?
The international reaction would also be interesting, since nobody had landed in England since the 1600's.
Do you think France would be successful in England? I can see them winning if Napoleon took the time to manage the campaign and they could keep the English from recovering their hold on the Channel, which would be difficult.

 

[Stalker]

Villeneuve was not quite a bad admiral. Here, however, one should have something more than genious and good luck against Horatio Nelson and his crews.
It's only 60 miles of that narrow stretch of water of the Strait of Dover but guarded so tightly that even a mouse could not sneak through.

 

[1940LaSalle]

It's theoretically possible that the French might have had a better shot had they landed in Ireland instead, and brought some of the Wild Geese from the abortive rebellion of 1798 along. Possibly it could have stirred a rising in Ireland. And if Napoleon had also brought along a Stuart pretender, it's conceivable there might have been similar disturbances in Scotland. Those diversions, however small, might have been just enough to distract British attention to allow Villeneuve to sneak across the straits.

 

[DGNT]

Indeed, I imagine that wherever the French landed, the Irish would revolt to one degree or another. Maybe even going so far as to support the French if the English didnt act quickly.

 

[Keenir]

Let us say that, via some genius amoung the French admirality, France breaks the English blockade over a lot of the French ports. France then proceedes to, in the resulting chaos, organize a fleet to sail soliders across the channel, and lands in England.

...and Napoleon ends up being hung in public.

 

[DGNT]

Explanation, maybe much?

 

[Jbenuniv]

Perhaps Nelson is killed before Trafalgar,or for whatever reason, the British are defeated at Trafalgar. This could open the way to a Napoleonic invasion of Britain.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Explanation, maybe much?

Perhaps the Emperor lands in Britain, but the Royal Navy cuts off his line of retreat/reinforcement.

Furthermore, Nap's way of deploying his infantry columns worked well against the Prussians and Austrian forces, but I think the Brits found a way around it.

Trapped in Britain, with many of his tricks not working and being forced to live off the land (you can extort food from peasants, but can you extort bullets, gunpowder, cannonballs, etc), Napoleon might find himself in a bit of trouble.

 

[DGNT]

But Napoleon, being Napoleon, would most likely anticipate this turn of events and have a system in place to, say, capture a British arsenal somewhere.
Besides, you assume the British fleet is capable of cutting of his supplies. The blockades of the era were rather loose affairs and, once the French managed to land, they could be supplied via smaller ships which were quite hard to catch.
It also assumes that, as mentioned above, Napoleon didnt win some crucial naval battle early in the wars.

Remember, Britain was never awarded the official 'Best of Everything' ribbon, except by the British. Of course, everybody generally gets the British version of events, so I suppose thats all that matters.

 

[MerryPrankster]

But Napoleon, being Napoleon, would most likely anticipate this turn of events and have a system in place to, say, capture a British arsenal somewhere.

Good point. However, I would expect the Brits to practice a scorched-earth campaign to try to keep him from living off the land.

Besides, you assume the British fleet is capable of cutting of his supplies. The blockades of the era were rather loose affairs and, once the French managed to land, they could be supplied via smaller ships which were quite hard to catch.
It also assumes that, as mentioned above, Napoleon didnt win some crucial naval battle early in the wars.

Good point. I was basing the premise on the assumption that he evaded an intact RN somehow, not that he wrecked a significant portion of it.

 

[WhatIsAUserName]

IIRC, the RN wasn't in too good shape right during the American Revolutionary War, and I think the British were forced to repair the Navy.

I remember that most of the officers in the French Navy had been executed during the Revolution. That didn't help.

The Dutch had a pretty good ship-building capacity, but I don't remember if Napoleon used it adequately.

In addition, I'm pretty sure the pride of the UK's military wasn't it's army but the Navy, which would make it pretty much the opposite of France.

 

[DGNT]

Good point. However, I would expect the Brits to practice a scorched-earth campaign to try to keep him from living off the land.



Good point. I was basing the premise on the assumption that he evaded an intact RN somehow, not that he wrecked a significant portion of it.

But would the British citizenry be willing to accept such a campaign? The UK is not Russia, they cannot afford to burn a thosand square miles of farmland and still have enough to feed their population. And remember, the UK was a (sort of) republic, as opposed to the Russian Autocracy, where the Tsar was viewed as being something like a Saint.

 

[Johnnyreb]

Apart from Nelson's fleet, the RN had another 10-15 battleships under Cornwallis in the Western Channel and another 10 under Keith in the Downs. This does not include frigates etc, which are perfectly capable of attacking invasion barges at night or in fog.

Sorry, but the RN did not stop fighting at the end of the ARW and retrieved the naval situation at the Battle of the Saints. Twenty years later they were at the height of their powers, in numbers, morale and talent.

The British Army, probably comprising a few regular regiments and a shower of fencibles, would not be able to stand against the Grand Armee. However, the British genuinely hated Napoleon. They thought him (correctly) to be a brutal dictator. The French discovered what it's like to have a whole population against them, in Spain.

But there is another factor, that of time. The Grand Armee could not have stayed in the Pas de Calais, or even England, for ever. There were rumblings along the Danube. Indeed, N had already resolved to march against Austria before Villeneuve had left Cadiz.

 

[Cockroach]

Perhaps Nelson is killed before Trafalgar,or for whatever reason, the British are defeated at Trafalgar. This could open the way to a Napoleonic invasion of Britain.

Too late for an immediate invsion as Nappy is already busily kicking the shit out of the Austrians. It could perhaps weaken the RN sufficiently to allow the frogs a later attempt but that seems rather unlikely.

 

[MerryPrankster]

But would the British citizenry be willing to accept such a campaign? The UK is not Russia, they cannot afford to burn a thosand square miles of farmland and still have enough to feed their population. And remember, the UK was a (sort of) republic, as opposed to the Russian Autocracy, where the Tsar was viewed as being something like a Saint.

I was under the impression the British public was so terrified of Napoleon that they used him to scare their kids. With the Great Evil on their home soil, they might be willing to accept all sorts of things.

Would the Brits need to destroy that much territory to starve Napoleon's army? Britain's land mass is so small that Boney could be more easily cornered somewhere than in Russia, where he had lots of room to manuever.

 

[MerryPrankster]

The British Army, probably comprising a few regular regiments and a shower of fencibles, would not be able to stand against the Grand Armee. However, the British genuinely hated Napoleon. They thought him (correctly) to be a brutal dictator. The French discovered what it's like to have a whole population against them, in Spain.

What did the British defeat Napoleon in Spain with?

 

[New Yorker]

Were not the British so afraid of an invasion that they went so far as to build a fort in the north to relocate parliament and the royal family in case London fell? So, not only did they hate Napoleon, but they were afraid of him, too.

 

[MrP]

Furthermore, Nap's way of deploying his infantry columns worked well against the Prussians and Austrian forces, but I think the Brits found a way around it.

The very fine tactic of standing in a thin line atop a hill, shooting a volley into the French as they deploy from column into line to shoot at you, then charging into them with gravity, your bayonet and several hundred screaming friends on your side.

That said, this is presumably before Nappy loses his tactical acumen. So he probably would attempt on outflanking manoeuvre that could seriously screw up British chances.

What did the British defeat Napoleon in Spain with?

Spaniards, Portuguese and British, oh, and a few hundred waggons.

The French lived off the land. They used foraging parties. Having smaller parties is more efficient. When you can't use smaller foraging parties because local militias kill or wound them all, you run into problems.

The British made a distinct point of not stealing from locals. They weren't saints, and the British did some vile things (Badajoz springs to mind), but overall they were far better than the French. Plus, the excellent logistics system allowed the British to keep on pushing. The French, living off the land as they did, would a) have to retreat when the food ran out and b) spread out when battle was not imminent so as to gather food. The British didn't really have these problems.

I know too little about the Britain of this period to comment for sure, but I'll say that I think the British have as much potential to be really angry that someone's trying to impose a sinister foreign monarch on them and take all their food as the Spanish.

 

[DAv]

What did the British defeat Napoleon in Spain with?

A mixture of British, German and Portuguese regiments. If Napoleon had attempted an invasion of Britain, I think he might have been tossed back if the British regiments had been called up before he could form a proper beach head.

 

[MrP]

A mixture of British, German and Portuguese regiments. If Napoleon had attempted an invasion of Britain, I think he might have been tossed back if the British regiments had been called up before he could form a proper beach head.

I forget the KGL!