Napoleon invades Britain instead of Russia

well, yes, there was talk of a tunnel, and some of hot-air balloons...

Fortunately, no-one pre-invented Pycrete...
 
No, instead they had the flat-bottomed boat, which would have been even worse at crossing the Channel - heck, most of them would have sunk shortly after leaving Boulogne.

The flat-bottomed boats were the most seaworthy objects of the time, but they could float and move, assuming good weather conditions. In septembre 1803, the Calais flotilla had an inconclusive encounter with an english light squadron, but ended up to regroup with the Boulogne flotilla. If the French prames were such carpenters' mistakes, they could not have done it.
 

Schnozzberry

Gone Fishin'
Donor
It is an absurd idea in reality, but I'd love to see Napoleon go "Bugger the fleet", and just do an Alexander The Great and build a massive bloody causeway between Calais and Dover - fortified with cannons and emplacements as it went.

I dread to think how long it would take to build, but it'd be a true wonder to see. 20 miles of rock shipped from across continental Europe? It'd be a horror.


So, this might be crazy, but does anyone have numbers on how much stone was being produced in Europe in this era? My quick estimate of how much stone this would take puts it about 20 pyramids worth, so this might technically be possible. It would be the largest engineering project of its era but if production was high enough, it would be possible if highly improbable.
 

Md139115

Banned
well, yes, there was talk of a tunnel, and some of hot-air balloons...

I believe they actually started working on a tunnel.

However, I think the best way forward would have been building a heck of a lot of hydrogen balloons and hoping the weather cooperates.
 

Md139115

Banned
So, this might be crazy, but does anyone have numbers on how much stone was being produced in Europe in this era? My quick estimate of how much stone this would take puts it about 20 pyramids worth, so this might technically be possible. It would be the largest engineering project of its era but if production was high enough, it would be possible if highly improbable.

I've always daydreamed of building a half stone, half wood giant causeway to the white cliffs of Dover. Problem is in my daydreams, I am immediately confronted by the largest fortification ever built in human history on the opposite side. If, however, I can figure out a way to build a giant cannon on the scale of the German WWII railroad siege guns, I should be good...
 

Schnozzberry

Gone Fishin'
Donor
I've always daydreamed of building a half stone, half wood giant causeway to the white cliffs of Dover. Problem is in my daydreams, I am immediately confronted by the largest fortification ever built in human history on the opposite side. If, however, I can figure out a way to build a giant cannon on the scale of the German WWII railroad siege guns, I should be good...
I could hardly imagine what the British would think as a slowly creeping mass of land began creeping forward carrying with it the great hordes of the Grande Armée. It's something that is just crazy enough that it might work. As it got close, I imagine there would be a near continual bombardment day and night which would destroy most fortifications and turn the region into the closest thing to Hell humanity had achieved so far.
 
The flat-bottomed boats were the most seaworthy objects of the time, but they could float and move, assuming good weather conditions. In septembre 1803, the Calais flotilla had an inconclusive encounter with an english light squadron, but ended up to regroup with the Boulogne flotilla. If the French prames were such carpenters' mistakes, they could not have done it.

Yes, they may have been effective when the weather was right, but it is important to remember that the English Channel is notorious for its turbulent waters, and that spells out a recipe for disaster for Napoleon and his boats.

See this report on the flat-bottomed boats by a French exile, Charles Dumouriez, who lived in Britain during the Napoleonic Wars:
So far as the hope of even a third of these 1,200 boats navigating in battle order - they are poorly built, heavy, overloaded - across the heavy seas, currents and winds of the Channel, it's an absurdity which reveals the greatest ignorance of the elements in which this tactical march would be carried out
 

Md139115

Banned
I could hardly imagine what the British would think as a slowly creeping mass of land began creeping forward carrying with it the great hordes of the Grande Armée. It's something that is just crazy enough that it might work. As it got close, I imagine there would be a near continual bombardment day and night which would destroy most fortifications and turn the region into the closest thing to Hell humanity had achieved so far.

And the Royal Navy would almost certainly launch an all-out assault on it when it was three quarters of the way done. To protect it, you would need to build a railroad track across it (which you probably would build anyway to move all that stone) and build carriages with fortress guns and iron plate. This is in addition to the fixed fortifications every thousand meters with pivoted fortress guns, and the 50,000 troops minimum needed to protect the project.
 
The causeway idea boggles the mind. I wonder what the early 19th century English equivalent of "You have got to be shitting me, Pyle" would have been.
 

Md139115

Banned
The causeway idea boggles the mind. I wonder what the early 19th century English equivalent of "You have got to be shitting me, Pyle" would have been.

Someone has got to perform a scientific study on what exactly is required to build this causeway. And I mean not just how much stone should be thrown into the ocean, but how many railroad ties, how many carts, how many cannon, how many men, how many man-hours and rations for those men.

Then we need to compare this with equally in-depth analyses of building a fleet of balloons and a tunnel. And we should then compare all three to what it would take to conquer all of Eurasia and Africa and daring the British to blockade it all.
 
The causeway idea boggles the mind. I wonder what the early 19th century English equivalent of "You have got to be shitting me, Pyle" would have been.

I have visions of the British selling Napoleon stone by day and employing divers to remove/retrieve emplaced stone by night so the French engineers are baffled by why they always remain behind schedule.
 

Artaxerxes

Banned
Someone has got to perform a scientific study on what exactly is required to build this causeway. And I mean not just how much stone should be thrown into the ocean, but how many railroad ties, how many carts, how many cannon, how many men, how many man-hours and rations for those men.

Then we need to compare this with equally in-depth analyses of building a fleet of balloons and a tunnel. And we should then compare all three to what it would take to conquer all of Eurasia and Africa and daring the British to blockade it all.

This being the internet someone has done some number crunching.

https://worldbuilding.stackexchange...icial-land-bridge-connecting-britain-to/71632
 
Isn't there a generic thread for Lion de Mer discussions?

Skipping my fanciful thoughts on armored Fulton steamers and Hot air balloons ferrying the French across the Channel . . .

How long would it take if France put as much into it as they safely could to build a fleet that would give them a good chance to get across?

I think Napoleon would have to start picking off whatever low lying fruit the British Empire had to offer in the mean time.
 
The causeway idea boggles the mind. I wonder what the early 19th century English equivalent of "You have got to be shitting me, Pyle" would have been.
Just imagine the captain of a merchant ship from America heading for Saint Petersburg that comes across the monstrosity and realizes that he's going to have to go around the entire island now.

Like a reverse canal.
 
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