Napoleon creates the state of Israel

nova2010

Banned
If Napoleon during it's campaign had suported the creation of a Jewish state in Palestaine during it's campaign in Middle East would this would be beneficial for him?

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Would never happen. There is just not enough reasons for Napoleon to perform ethnic cleansing on an Arab-populated province of the Ottoman Empire and repopulate it with Jews, and then give it independence.
 
There's no way. If Napoleon for some reason decided to create a Jewish homeland he'd place it somewhere in Europe. The Balkans maybe? Invading the Levant just to have a place to essentially dump all those problematic Jews somewhere else is a bit extreme (that's about the only reason I could see anyone trying such a thing back then).
 

nova2010

Banned
There's no way. If Napoleon for some reason decided to create a Jewish homeland he'd place it somewhere in Europe. The Balkans maybe? Invading the Levant just to have a place to essentially dump all those problematic Jews somewhere else is a bit extreme (that's about the only reason I could see anyone trying such a thing back then).

Not only to force as many Jews out of Europe but also to make a perminant ally in order to undermine the already decling Othoman Empire and control the trade routes from India
 
An ally that most likely wouldn't be able to support itself against the Ottoman Empire wouldn't be much of a benefit. Not to mention that modern irrigation techniques weren't available, making such a State quite less viable.

I could see Napoleon establishing a protectorate there, or administering it as part of France, and a few Jews moving there, but not much else.
 
At this point there's no real incentive to create a Jewish state in an area that is mainly Muslim in population with a substantial Christian minority presence. Just no.
 
nova2010 said:
If Napoleon during it's campaign had suported the creation of a Jewish state in Palestaine during it's campaign in Middle East would this would be beneficial for him?

You'll first need him to be able to do that, meaning he has to succeed the Syrian part of the Egyptian Campaign which he failed in OTL. And that is something that will be hard to do, especially after the French Fleet looses the battle of the Nile.

Furthermore, I doubt he would try to do that : it's too dangerous for him as it could angered all the Arabs in the region (meaning not just those loyal to the Ottomans) and turn them against him.

It's not a good example, but look at OTL Israel : there were many Arabs who weren't happy with the creation of a Jewish State. It's not a good example as it was 1947 and the mentalities were not the same as 1799. Nervertheless, you propose creating Israel two hundred years before its creation in OTL, a time were religious authorities had far more power than today, even though i'm not sure it will be all about religion.

I hope I'm not sounding racist or something similar because that is not what I intended to do. If I was, I'm sorry.

Andrelvis said:
An ally that most likely wouldn't be able to support itself against the Ottoman Empire wouldn't be much of a benefit. Not to mention that modern irrigation techniques weren't available, making such a State quite less viable.

That's true and adds one more reason for Napoleon not create a Jewish State : it would be useless and fall in a very short time.

Besides, while it's true that Napoleon emancipated the Jews during his reign, I doubt he would have gone as far as create a Jewish State.
 
Well Zionism itself hasn't really emerged yet, so I'm not sure how powerful the idea would be for the Jews even if he did try it.

So aside from the Balkans what other places could he stick it and what might be the results and reactions?
 
So aside from the Balkans what other places could he stick it and what might be the results and reactions?

The Louisiana Territory? It wouldn't take much of a change for him to decide not to sell it to the U.S.; if I recall, he was already on the verge of changing his mind when Jefferson finalized the deal. I don't know that Napoleon would even bother trying to create a "homeland" for the Jews, but I suppose he could always just ship them across the ocean.
 
Not only to force as many Jews out of Europe but also to make a perminant ally in order to undermine the already decling Othoman Empire and control the trade routes from India

Why bother with an ally when you can just annex the land and keep it? Allies are worthless if there's the serious, cost-free potential to just control their armies and resources yourself.
 
Would it not be more likely that he'll form the Knigdom of Jerusalem as a French puppet state under one of his relatives than a Jewish state?
 
von Adler said:
Would it not be more likely that he'll form the Knigdom of Jerusalem as a French puppet state under one of his relatives than a Jewish state?

During his Egyptian Campaign, Napoleon wasn't yet Emperor of the French. So placing one of his relatives as King of Jerusalem is out.

Now, if Napoleon succeeds in conquering Egypt and Syria, comes back to France and is crowned Emperor, it's not impossible. But which one of his relatives would want such a Faraway kingdom while Nappy gets them crowns in Europe?

The only one to whom that could happen is Lucien Bonaparte as Napoleon and him often argued. Lucien even fled France and was captured by the Britsih. Not to mention he was made Prince of Canino by Pope Pius VII, who didn't really like Napoleon as he excommunicated him for conquering the Papal States and kidnapping him. Napoleon could make Lucien "King of Jerusalem" to get rid of him.

But you'll need him to conserve Egypt and Syria and that is gonna be hard, especially if the Battle of the Nile isn't butterflied away.
 
During his Egyptian Campaign, Napoleon wasn't yet Emperor of the French. So placing one of his relatives as King of Jerusalem is out.

Now, if Napoleon succeeds in conquering Egypt and Syria, comes back to France and is crowned Emperor, it's not impossible. But which one of his relatives would want such a Faraway kingdom while Nappy gets them crowns in Europe?

The only one to whom that could happen is Lucien Bonaparte as Napoleon and him often argued. Lucien even fled France and was captured by the Britsih. Not to mention he was made Prince of Canino by Pope Pius VII, who didn't really like Napoleon as he excommunicated him for conquering the Papal States and kidnapping him. Napoleon could make Lucien "King of Jerusalem" to get rid of him.

But you'll need him to conserve Egypt and Syria and that is gonna be hard, especially if the Battle of the Nile isn't butterflied away.

True, I think staying with Egypt and Syria would mean France would have to be able to protect maritime communications with those regions.
 
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