Napoleon´s option.

Vault-Scope

Banned
The Congress of Erfurt sucedded (at least temporarly) to preserve the Russo-French alliance. But in order to keep it that way and stop other countries from revolting against France (as well as undermining british acess to India), Napoleon decided to make an example out of... the ottoman empire!
On June 22, 1812, la Grande Armée of 692,105 men, the largest army assembled up to that point in European history, crossed the ottoman borders and headed towards Istanbule.

Now what happens, does Napolean wins? What are the consequences of such action ??



The Grande Armée was divided as follows:
In addition 80,000 National Guards had been conscripted for full military service defending the imperial frontiers.
With these included total French imperial forces on the pttoman borders and inthe ottoman empire itself came to almost 800,000 men.
(Like in OTL) This vast commitment of manpower would, of course, severely strained the Empire - especially considering that there were a further 300,000 French troops fighting in Iberia and over 200,000 more in Germany and Italy.
450,000 French troops makes up the majority of the army with French allies are making up the rest. In addition to the detached Austrian Corps of 34,000 under Schwarzenberg there were some 95,000 Poles, 90,000 Germans (24,000 Bavarians, 20,000 Saxons, 20,000 Prussians, 17,000 Westphalians and several thousand from smaller Rhineland states), 30,000 Italians, 25,000 Neapolitans, 12,000 Swiss, 4,800 Spanish, 3,500 Croats, and 2,000 Portuguese. In addition there are also Dutch and also a number of Belgian contingents. In short, every nationality in Napoleon's vast empire was represented in the attack.
 
I believe it would be impossible for the Ottomans to stop this army from taking the entire country, much less Istanbul. I mean, in reality the Europeans fell to Napolean's armies that were much smaller than this force, so..

When Napolean wins, eh.. Possibly bring the Ottoman Empire into his "parade" of backing nations?

Also maybe get into a better position to wrangle control of the Suez.
 
maybe after taking turkey...ottoman empire...he pulls an alexander and heads straight for india :eek: and decides the british don't need it any more...
 
Why did Napoleon never invade the Ottoman Empire in OTL?

Well, he did if Egypt was a part of it at that time.

I'd like to see the TL, Napoleon in the balkans. At least army won't die freezing and hungry.

But wasn't Napoleons attack on Russia for the same reason as Hitlers? The fact he was afraid of being backstabbed by the russians after having divided Europe with them.

If that changes and Nappy has a reason to think that Russia won't use the oppurtunity to attack him then maybe he could decide to create a few balkan kingdoms to make sure every family member has a kingdom. (the cousins, the nephews and the in-laws too:p)
 
This is truly overkill! How many troops does the Ottoman Enpire have in Europe? How well equipped are they? These territories showed a great desire for freedom in the last half of the 19th century. Would the local troops fight or just throw down their arms? Would Napoleon call for freedom of the Balkan peoples? Most importantly, why would Napoleon send all these troops when a much smaller force would suffice? The rest could be used in Spain and other areas of trouble.

By the time Napoleon reaches Istanbul, The British could have enough ships in the Straits to prevent crossing into Asia Minor. It is a long and difficult trip across this mountianous and road poor area to get there. Supply problems would be worse than against the Tsar. If the Turks are able to bring troops to Istanbul - and the British navy supplies and supports them - this could be a major defeat for Napoleon's shrunken forces,
 
In any case I suppose that tsar Alexander I had wanted a part of the cake (Balkans is supposed, at least Valaquia and Moldavia, to be an area of interest for Russia), also because one of the assumptions of the POD is that the Congress of Erfurt have better outcome than in OTL permitting the survival of some kind of friendship between Russia and France during more time than in OTL, so if the Russo-French alliance is alive and well in 1812, we should suppose that Russian troops would intervene together with the Grande Armee.
 
I would suppose that if Napoleon moved against the OE it would probably be in concert with the Tsar. The invasion would be with smaller forces to secure the Balkans probably as the primary goal. Substantial forces would remain in Poland and the Rest of the European "Empire" to keeps the natives from getting restless and to keep a watchful eye on his Russian Ally. Backed by the RN. Napoleon will be stopped at Constantinople if he is foolish enough to try and force the defeat of the city.
 
Have about having Russia and France decide to split the balkans between the two/

A continued reason to continue their alliance.

And have the battle of Constantinople become the ATL's Waterloo.
 
Wow, lovely POD.

But I would change a few things to make it fit better in history?

Napoleon assembled such a huge army in 1812 for two reasons; to overawe the Czar into reaffirming their friendship and thereby making an invasion superfluous and to show the support of the entire French empire and its allies. The same was attempted at Erfurt which is why so many princes and petty rulers were invited, to prop up Napoleon’s image.

If the Ottoman empire is to be made an example off, that many troops are not necessary.

Secondly, Russia and the Ottomans were at war between 1805 and 1812, initially as French allies until 1807 when Napoleon and Alexander made peace and Russia was forced to make peace with the Ottomans. That peace lasted a year.

So if the Ottomans suddenly become an enemy of France (perhaps because they ally with England?), a joint effort between Russia and France becomes likely. Especially since the Balkans are within the (self-proclaimed) Russian sphere of influence.

So how would the contours of such a war evolve?

Well, France would need the support of Austria and Russia as both empires had long held interests in the region. Both empires would also be vital centres for supplies. The Napoleonic kingdoms in Italy would also feature greatly in the plans.
What wouldn’t be needed was huge numbers. The Ottoman army was sizeable in numbers but not in quality (mostly irregular levies and a small corps of janissaries). I would envision a three pronged assault,

The main force under Napoleon staging from Italy and moving south along the Adriatic. A central force under Schwarzenberg moving along the central Balkans and a Russian force moving along the Black Sea.

There might be some important battles and sieges because the mountainous terrain and river lines would benefit the defending Turks but the correlation of forces and resources would inevitably point to a coalition victory. The British would not be able to assist the Turks to any great extent. Their main ground force was engaged in Spain while the Turkish forts guarding the Dardanelles would have easily repulsed the British navy once they were in coalition hands.

Taking Constantinople would have been the traditional climax of the campaign. Had the Sultan not surrendered, the three armies would have marched on, seeking a final battle. With the state of logistics of the period, marching beyond the Balkans was difficult but certainly not impossible. The French had conquered Spain, which has many similarities to Central Turkey.

At some point, the Sultan would surrender and end up losing a number of border provinces as was habitual. Napoleon certainly would not wish to march on to India. He would have been far too afraid to leave Paris for such a long period (coups were always on his mind) and India was not yet the jewel in the British crown.

The main difference would have been the relationship between France and Austria and Russia. If a lasting alliance could be forged between them, nothing could have withstood France’s hegemony over Western Europe while Austria’s interests could be channelled into the Balkans while Russia could be encouraged to look to the East.
 

67th Tigers

Banned
Perhaps Bentnick's British-Italian Army is in the way? (Wellington's Peninsula Army is one of four British field armies on the continent at the time ISTR). Not to mention the British control the major sea routes.

I suspect any major invasion of the Ottoman Empire will have to start at Greece.
 
Napoleon and Alexander actually did draw up plans for partitioning the Ottoman Empire between them after Tilsit, but they never came to anything because neither of them was prepared to let the other have Constantinople. If you're going to go anywhere with this POD you need to find a way of getting past this (bearing in mind that it proved impossible for the finest minds in both countries OTL).

Assuming though that this is somehow resolved and the campaign gets going, then I strongly suspect this is one of those wars that has to be won quickly or it will get very messy indeed. In particular, the allies need to get to Constantinople before (a) the Turks manage to improvise a defensive line (were the Catalca lines in place at this time?) and (b) before the Royal Navy arrives in the Bosphorous to bolster the defence. Fail to meet either of these goals and I think you can say goodbye to taking Constantinople by coup de main and the French and Russians will have to settle down to a siege - and if there was one form of warfare that the Turks did not suck at in this period it was defending a fixed position.

If the French and Russians get bogged down outside Constantinople things will get very unpleasant indeed for them very quickly - their supply lines will be very long and run through significant stretches of hostile territory (what is Turkish for "little war"?) and with the RN in Constantinople they can forget about moving anything in by sea. For added fits and giggles imagine the British landing more or less anywhere on the Adriatic coast and driving inland to cut comunications altogether whilst simultaneously intriguing with Austria to stab the French in the back...

So all in all either a quick victory or a long-running disaster. A bit like Spain really, only bigger.
 
Assuming Britian arrives in Constantinople in time to allow the Turks to hold Thrace . but France-Italy/Russia/Austria get the Balkans.
???? Italy = Dalmatia - Russia = Bulguria/ Armenia - Austria = Serbia/Greece????

?What will happen to the Ottoman Empire? ?Will this cause a greater focus on the Levant and Mesopotanian Territories?,
?Or will the OE obsess on getting it's European territories back?
 
Um, traversing the Balkans is never easy...

Even if he starts from landings in Epirus (presuming he can take/hold Corfu) or somewhere else along the Adriatic

Else, he has to invade from Bosnia onwards...

IIRC he will run into Ali of Janina somewhere along the way too...

And the British will welcome a new ally, especially one they can support by sea primarily

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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