Napolean's Navy Wins Battle of Trafalgar, Armies Conquer Europe and Britain then US?

What if the First French Empire's navy won the day at Trafalgar and launched an invasion of Britain successfully. Would Napolean move onto the fledgling US with a huge army?
 
What if the First French Empire's navy won the day at Trafalgar and launched an invasion of Britain successfully. Would Napolean move onto the fledgling US with a huge army?
Why would he do that? He had only sold Louisiana to us two years prior.
 
What if the First French Empire's navy won the day at Trafalgar and launched an invasion of Britain successfully. Would Napolean move onto the fledgling US with a huge army?

1) The odds of the French/Spanish winning were not great. They were outclassed.

2) Even if they did win, how much of Nelson's fleet could they realistically expect to take (or sink)? Chances are it would've scattered.

3) Trafalgar merely ended the threat of invasion. Once the French had got past that fleet, they'd have to deal with the home fleet.

4) Napoleon was overstretched after his post-1805 victories, even with auxiliaries. How would he manage to control all Europe, including Britain, and have sufficient to invade the US?

5) You are familiar with US geography?
 
What if the First French Empire's navy won the day at Trafalgar and launched an invasion of Britain successfully. Would Napolean move onto the fledgling US with a huge army?

A victory at Trafalgar would have been very hard to pull off. Villenueve was playing right into Nelson's hands- he wanted the Franco-Spanish fleet to come out. Nelson had his frigates watching Cadiz 24-7 and the Franco-Spanish were undersupplied and their ships were in poor condition, having been penned up in harbour. Basically, when Villenueve sortied from Cadiz he was throwing himself into the teeth of an enemy who knew exactly where he was and what he was doing. All that he was doing was throwing away the potential of his ships as a fleet in being since most of his men and officers were simply too inexperienced to stand against the British line of battle.

Even if Villenueve somehow manages to overwhelm Nelson's fleet, he'll be left with a battered and torn force with which to try to force the Channel in the face of the eleven fresh ships of the Channel Fleet (plus whatever British ships fall back from Trafalgar)
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Not to mention the fact that, by the time Trafalgar was fought, Napoleon and his army were already deep in Central Europe, having abandoned any idea of invading England.
 
What happens after Trafalgar depends on how the French won. If Villenueve was merely lucky, then nothing significant changes, except Napoleon's fall could come at a later date; if Villenueve won because he was that good and his men were adequate in training, then everything changes. Napoleon could conceivably be the modern Alexander and luck into an empire that lasts his lifetime. But no US, though. Too far, and it would require years and all of his resources to invade Russia after conquering Britain. His empire would be too drained to do anything after Russia.
 
"The fear that Bonaparte will come over and conquer us also, is too chimerical to be genuine. Supposing him to have finished Spain and Portugal, he has yet England and Russia to subdue. The maxim of war was never sounder than in this case, not to leave an enemy in the rear; and especially where an insurrectionary flame is known to be under the embers, merely smothered, and ready to burst at every point.

These two subdued (and surely the Anglomen will not think the conquest of England alone a short work), ancient Greece and Macedonia, the cradle of Alexander, his prototype, and Constantinople, the seat of empire for the world, would glitter more in his eye than our bleak mountains and rugged forests.

Egypt, too, and the golden apples of Mauritania, have for more than half a century fixed the longing eyes of France; and with Syria, you know, he has an old affront to wipe out. .....A republican emperor, from his affection to republics, independent of motives of expediency, must grant to ourselves the Cyclop's boon of being the last devoured. While all this is doing, are we to suppose the chapter of accidents read out, and that nothing can happen to cut short or disturb his enterprises?'-Thomas Jefferson
 
The best way to look at it would be to have a DIFFERENT battle instead of Trafalgar - say, for example, when Calder engaged the Combined Fleet and didn't achieve much, instead the latter somehow win this engagement decisively, a sort of reverse Glorious First of June ?

I don't know the ins and outs of this encounter as it is usually skipped over in the lead to Trafalgar, and even Bryant mainly mentions it for the details of Calder's subsequent court martial, and Nelson sending him home to clear his name on a ship of the line

But IF the Combined Fleet wins this encounter, then its NOT stuck at Cadiz, but is IIRC already in the Bay of Biscay. They have the jump on the rest of the British fleet because a large part is way to the South (or West, I forget which)

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Let's say he left Russia Alone

What if Napolean left Russia alone and withdrew from Eygpt? What then? Could he have had the resources to send an army across the Atlantic and if he did would the United States and Britain set aside their differences and fight the French?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
What if Napolean left Russia alone and withdrew from Eygpt? What then? Could he have had the resources to send an army across the Atlantic and if he did would the United States and Britain set aside their differences and fight the French?

In my mind, there is absolutely no conceivable scenario in which Napoleon could or would invade the United States.
 
What if Napolean left Russia alone and withdrew from Eygpt? What then? Could he have had the resources to send an army across the Atlantic and if he did would the United States and Britain set aside their differences and fight the French?
No.

The USA was really one of the only states around at this point that wasn't out to destroy Rev. France, on top of that, why would North America be that tempting?
 
Why So Negative

Why are you guys so negative? I'm trying to have a positive discussion about an interesting topic and all people do is go NO!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Yes, why would Napoleon want to regain an enormous chunk of North America, if he had the means and oppurtunity to do so? :D

Because compared to Europe it was utterly worthless.

If France won Trafalger....hmm...well it was just the last battle of a long campaign...The fight would go on.
 
Why are you guys so negative? I'm trying to have a positive discussion about an interesting topic and all people do is go NO!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's being realistic, not negative. If you want to ask "WI an ASB made Napoleon abandoned Europe and invaded the USA in 1813" you should go to the ASB forum.
 
Why are you guys so negative? I'm trying to have a positive discussion about an interesting topic and all people do is go NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

I apologise for my fellow members. It's not the greatest way to be welcomed to the board, I'd agree. :eek::(

That said, though, the main thing about this topic is that, as most of the posters above have been saying (if impolitely) is that it's very, very hard to pull off. Invading across the Atlantic is allways hard-to-impossible - with the (possible) exception of New Orleans and the Potomac Campaign in 1812, I can't honestly think of a single time somebody's made a straight-up amphibious assault from Europe. Besides which, there is always the problem that Napoleon was more interested in Eurasia first anyways.

So guys, lay off the new guy, OK? As for mrld1630, I'd suggest you try looking further back than Trafalgar for your POD; it requires some big changes in the French Navy, at an absolute minimum, and 1807 is just too late to cut it. That said, if you think you can make a TL for this, go for it! As Thande "Steampunk French Sealion" has proved, you can get away with a lot if you start making changes early enough...
 
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Your Right

You're Right sorry for my overreaction. I won't develop a timeline for this. i'll think of something else.
 
; if Villenueve won because he was that good and his men were adequate in training, then everything changes. .

Yes, but in order to do that, you need to change the structure and training of the french imperial and likely revolutionary navy ( of course avoiding Aboukir would be a good idea ).

Assuming you don't want to postulate Nelson changing side and being an admiral in the french Navy :)) ), The best shot I see would be Suffren surviving ( until say 1805 qt leqst ) and being given the authority and ressources to rebuild the french Navy, And that's a long shot ( to begin with, he has to survive the Terror ).
 
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