Naked Presidents

[Emperor of Scandinavia]

As you know, the above thread is titled Naked Presidents. That is the title of a book by James Silver.

The book involves President Kennedy not being assassinated, and being elected to a 2nd term.

Premise
- Kennedy defests Nixon in 1964 election.
- Kennedy impeached by house, not senate (not removed from office)
- Nelson Rockefeller elected 1968 (agnew resigns as vp due to tax fraud)
- Moris Udall elected 1976
- Ronald Reagan elected 1980
- vice president Bush assumes authority via section 4 of 25th amendment in 1987
- Bush beats Pat Buchanan in primary challenge, and beats Jessie Jackson in 1988
- Bill Clinton defeats Bush and Ross Perot in 1992
- Bill Clinton and Al Gore assassinated by Timothey McVey in 1995
- Newton Leroy Gingrich becomes president 1995
- Newt Gingrich wins 1996 election

Other things
- President Gingrich becomes first president to get divorced while in office (due to affair with Monica Lewinsky)
- President Gingrich appoints Hillary Clinton to supreme court
- Bill Clinton becomes an air force general
- President Kennedy dies in 1971 by natural causes
- President Kennedy launces successful invasion of Cuba that topples Castro
- Castro later returns to Cuba, and becomes leader of Cuba via elections

So now on to my main question.

What do people think of a Jessie Jackson v Patrick Buchanan presidental contest? (I personally probally would vote for Pat)

Wishing you well, his majesty,
The Scandinavian Emperor

 

[Hanul]

Why would Kennedy get impeached by the house? Some of the premises don't seem to make sense.

 

[Emperor of Scandinavia]

The whole premise of the book is to hypothesize what would happen if President Kennedy were to be impeached due to a sex scandal, and President Clinton were to be assassinated before the end of his first term.

Also, in it seems that in the book, that pot has been legalized.

Wishing you well, his majesty,
The Scandinavian Emperor

 

[Emperor Norton I]

I'm aware of the book, and the synopsis always comes across like one of those crappy AH's where nothing really changes, and those things that do are wrongheaded.

JFK would not get impeached. Firstly, because things like that were always a kind of open secret no one disrespected, neither media nor politicians. Secondly, JFK was by far not the only one. It was common in Washington. Nixon would not be the nominee in 1964 (politically dead). Reagan would have a hard time getting in in 1980. Clinton/Gore in 92 and 96, and all that other stuff with the exact same political field is just lazy, and totally ignores butterflies. JFK will not invade Cuba, because he was seeking rapprochment, which Castro was working with him on in secret.

 

[Elfwine]

I'm aware of the book, and the synopsis always comes across like one of those crappy AH's where nothing really changes, and those things that do are wrongheaded.

JFK would not get impeached. Firstly, because things like that were always a kind of open secret no one disrespected, neither media nor politicians. Secondly, JFK was by far not the only one. It was common in Washington. Nixon would not be the nominee in 1964 (politically dead). Reagan would have a hard time getting in in 1980. Clinton/Gore in 92 and 96, and all that other stuff with the exact same political field is just lazy, and totally ignores butterflies. JFK will not invade Cuba, because he was seeking rapprochment, which Castro was working with him on in secret.

For the curious, says who (on the underlined part)?

 

[Emperor Norton I]

For the curious, says who (on the underlined part)?

It's a historical fact. There's documentation and all that sexy stuff. Kennedy realized that the US was not having success removing Castro, and wanted to move Castro out of the Soviet sphere and neutralize Cuba. For his part, Castro was tired of the Soviets.

 

[Elfwine]

It's a historical fact. There's documentation and all that sexy stuff. Kennedy realized that the US was not having success removing Castro, and wanted to move Castro out of the Soviet sphere and neutralize Cuba. For his part, Castro was tired of the Soviets.

Documentation where, though? I'm not trying to be skeptical, just trying to find out where to read about it.

 

[Ariosto]

- Kennedy defests Nixon in 1964 election.

Not going to happen given that Nixon had already made a previous pledge not to run in '64, and knew it was going to be an uphill battle. If there are other PODs of course than this could make better sense given he could better unite both wings of the Republican Party.​

- Kennedy impeached by house, not senate (not removed from office)

FOR WHAT? ​

- Nelson Rockefeller elected 1968 (agnew resigns as vp due to tax fraud)

I can see Rockefeller winning the election, but Spiro Agnew? Really? The only reason he was chosen was because he was the man nobody knew about; Nixon in the matchups ironically ran best alone, without a known running mate. I think someone like Ohio Governor James Rhodes (who actively supported Rockefeller's bid in '68) or even Governor Daniel J. Evans would be more likely.​

- Moris Udall elected 1976

I can see that happening given how close he was in OTL, and without someone like Carter in the mix.​

- Ronald Reagan elected 1980

And the Butterflies are now being put through a slaughterhouse. Depending on what has occurred, Reagan's political career has likely gone through a different political trajectory. Unless I had the book on hand I cannot properly imagine how Reagan remains as powerful as he is when it seems the Rockefeller/Nixonian wing of the Party still maintains a significant amount of power (from my perspective).​

- vice president Bush assumes authority via section 4 of 25th amendment in 1987

He still picked Bush? He picked the same guy? How different is this work of literature again from OTL?​

- Bush beats Pat Buchanan in primary challenge, and beats Jessie Jackson in 1988

No Comment.​

- Bill Clinton defeats Bush and Ross Perot in 1992

Aztecs riding Dinosaurs.​

- Bill Clinton and Al Gore assassinated by Timothey McVey in 1995

Wait, the same two people? Again?​

- Newton Leroy Gingrich becomes president 1995

The Republican Revolution STILL occurs? And the elect the SAME BLOODY SPEAKER?​

- Newt Gingrich wins 1996 election

This at least makes some sense, the genocide of the butterflies notwithstanding. It is dependent on the circumstances of course, but he should be favored regardless of his opponent unless he manages to act like the Gingrich of latter years, which I wouldn't put past him.​

- President Gingrich becomes first president to get divorced while in office (due to affair with Monica Lewinsky)

.......................................no honestly I don't have a response to this.​

- President Gingrich appoints Hillary Clinton to supreme court

So Newt Gingrich puts the former First Lady on the Court, who happens to be the SAME First Lady of OTL, despite strong political differences of opinion. What is the logic in that move? What does he honestly gain in doing so?​

- Bill Clinton becomes an air force general

So, wait, he gets drafted into the Military at some point, and STILL meets Hillary? Even though they met at the school he would not be attending while he is in the Military? I could have the wrong idea but this would do a number on his political career regardless.​

- President Kennedy dies in 1971 by natural causes

I know Kennedy had serious health issues, but I didn't think, even with the fastened pace due to being in the Executive Office, he would fade away THAT quickly. Maybe into the Late (70's) at the earliest, but I suppose that any earlier date is really possible, just not as likely.​

- President Kennedy launces successful invasion of Cuba that topples Castro

So Kennedy just gives Khrushchev the finger a couple years latter sned our boys into Havana? That is going to do wonders for our International Relations.​

- Castro later returns to Cuba, and becomes leader of Cuba via elections

So the United States kick down the door in Havana, force Fidel out of power and then.............just...........leave him............be? Let him keep his political acumen despite his connections to the government in Moscow? Despite the Cuban Missile Crisis? Has Washington lost its mind?​

What do people think of a Jessie Jackson v Patrick Buchanan presidental contest? (I personally probally would vote for Pat)

Despite the mind numbing lack of divergence from OTL, or of decisions that simply seem to have no semblance in reality, I would have to go with Patrick Buchanan simply because I don't want that other man anywhere near the Oval Office with his Radical Left Agenda.​

 

[Emperor Norton I]

Documentation where, though? I'm not trying to be skeptical, just trying to find out where to read about it.

I don't know a specific place. Just Google "Cuba Rapprochment Kennedy".

 

[Elfwine]

I don't know a specific place. Just Google "Cuba Rapprochment Kennedy".

Sounds good. Thanks for mentioning it though.

 

[theReturner]

- Bill Clinton defeats Bush and Ross Perot in 1992
- Bill Clinton and Al Gore assassinated by Timothey McVey in 1995
- Newton Leroy Gingrich becomes president 1995
- Newt Gingrich wins 1996 election

This chain of events alone would probably make for an interesting TL.

 

[Cook]

It's a historical fact. There's documentation and all that sexy stuff.

Is it? Fucked if I've ever heard mention of it on any book covering Castro.

 

[The Admiral Hook]

Is it? Fucked if I've ever heard mention of it on any book covering Castro.

One example:

Lisa Howard was being sent back and forth "interviewing" the two leaders for a time. It was actually a subtle way to check one another's temperature on rapprochement without alerting or infuriating their respective military leaders. Kennedy had been doing the same with Kruschev for a while through a series of letters.

Dangerous waters for all three men involved, though it's difficult for us to understand that fully in hindsight.

There were more examples, but this one was the most bizarre and blatantly obvious. Do a little more research and there is actually a lot of documentation on all of this.