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I'm trying to construct a timeline (my first and it's going to be awhile...research and such) about an alternate ww11 where the main belligerent is a much more competant/aggressive soviet union run by trotsky OR someone intelligent and less bloodthirsty then stalin. I can see some basic small purges under trotsky but nothing like stalins....planed famanes...some would say that industrilization would be slowed...I say with more competant people ALIVE it will be even more advanced in our timeline.....however it will be seen as a bigger threat to the western democracys then facism....so the entante will probably tolerate a faciests buffer zone in eastern europe...I have alot of feedback asking to do to get this scenario tight but thats for lator...my lunch break is here
 
This is one that has fascinated me for months now. WI Trotsky had won the power struggle and become leader of the Soviet Union? No purges? Would Communism in the USSR work? He showed a willingness to work with Americans (writing Stalins biography). Would the Cold War occur, or at least in a more withdrawn state? Or would he be the same ruthless tyrant as Josef Stalin.

Trotsky would have been a lot more aggressive in spreading Communism. He may overextends and cause the USSR to fall earlier. Alternatively, he may expand the Communist sphere so far it survives for much longer.
 
Trotsky had ideas about a more democratic system, instead of Stalin's "do what I say or I'll kill you" policy. Plus, Trotsky looked like Colonel Sanders, which is always nice.
 
Trotsky would have been a lot more aggressive in spreading Communism. He may overextends and cause the USSR to fall earlier. Alternatively, he may expand the Communist sphere so far it survives for much longer.

Would he?

I'm working through White Eagle, Red Star on the Polish Soviet War of 1920. Trotsky was against the war, whereas the reckless Stalin wanted it. Trotsky also advocated relying on greater foreign investment to help the USSR develop.

It's not the traditional attitude, but.
 
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What people need to keep in mind is that Trotsky wasn't for USSR expansionism: he was for supporting communist revolutions in other countries. So, he wouldn't have tried to take over Europe - he would've supported European communists in overthrowing their own governments, so the new communist states could be allied with the USSR.
 
What people need to keep in mind is that Trotsky wasn't for USSR expansionism: he was for supporting communist revolutions in other countries. So, he wouldn't have tried to take over Europe - he would've supported European communists in overthrowing their own governments, so the new communist states could be allied with the USSR.

To be fair, it's not clear just what form Trotsky wanted for the USSR government. Into the early 1920s, it wasn't sure if the USSR would be a unitary Republic, or if it would be a confederation of Socialist states with a varying amount of autonomy. It was thought that Poland, for instance, would join such a federation.

(Odd fact: The Ukraine had its own diplomatic corps into the 20s).
 
What people need to keep in mind is that Trotsky wasn't for USSR expansionism: he was for supporting communist revolutions in other countries. So, he wouldn't have tried to take over Europe - he would've supported European communists in overthrowing their own governments, so the new communist states could be allied with the USSR.

Which amounted to the same thing.
 
Which amounted to the same thing.

Not really. Compare life in Yugoslavia to life in Romania or North Korea to life in the USSR. Not only would the Communist states probably astonish the world with their ingratitude, but they need not be Soviet puppets.

Anyway, could you see a Communist League of Nations?
 
Not really. Compare life in Yugoslavia to life in Romania or North Korea to life in the USSR. Not only would the Communist states probably astonish the world with their ingratitude, but they need not be Soviet puppets.

Anyway, could you see a Communist League of Nations?

They would almost certainly end up as Soviet puppets.
 
Who? Where?

A Poland conquered in 1920? Probably. A Revolutionary China? Not so much.

This statement is rather, ah, vague.

Most of what would be Communist Europe, actually. Russian nationalism has a natural tendency to push it that way. The thought being "We gave them all this help and they think they don't have to give us anything in return. HA!"
 
Most of what would be Communist Europe, actually. Russian nationalism has a natural tendency to push it that way. The thought being "We gave them all this help and they think they don't have to give us anything in return. HA!"

Yeah, but that doesn't mean homegrown commies would be anything but paranoid of the USSR. Certainly Polish or German People's republics wouldn't touch vassalhood with a ten-foot pole...
 
Yeah, but that doesn't mean homegrown commies would be anything but paranoid of the USSR. Certainly Polish or German People's republics wouldn't touch vassalhood with a ten-foot pole...

What could they do about it? Russia is much larger and would be able to force its way in.
 
What could they do about it? Russia is much larger and would be able to force its way in.

Russia's military was actually very small up until the 1930s; its industrial base is relatively small until the same time; and the other nations of the world would be perfectly hapy to see the Communist nations fight it out.
 
What could they do about it? Russia is much larger and would be able to force its way in.

Into 1920s/30s Germany? Sure, they've been ganked by Versailles (Assuming the PRG doesn't just repudiate it) but the 20s/30s red army wasn't exactly the shining exemplar of world-conquering might either.
 
To be fair, it's not clear just what form Trotsky wanted for the USSR government. Into the early 1920s, it wasn't sure if the USSR would be a unitary Republic, or if it would be a confederation of Socialist states with a varying amount of autonomy. It was thought that Poland, for instance, would join such a federation.
IIRC Trotsky was against Russification of the other SSRs - so you could end up with a larger but more decentralised & confederative USSR, yeah.
 
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