N/A

Thande

Donor
Interesting question. My gut instinct is that Wellington would not be such a singular figure in Britain, because both he and Moore would have masterminded campaigns in the later Peninsular War. I'm not sure what the Spaniards thought of Moore, and whether they would respect him as much as they eventually did Wellington, though.

Assuming he survives until after the end of the Napoleonic Wars, I don't think Moore would enter politics - instead, and rather more interesting to my mind, he might stay with the British Army and carry on his modernisation campaign. If we ignore butterflies for a moment, suffice to say that I don't think the British army sent to the Crimea in TTL would be anything like as outdated as OTL's...
 
I'm not sure about Moore doing well in the Peninsula. He was very difficult to get along with I believe and the campaigns might not have been as successful with reaching an accord with the Spanish and Navy that Wellington was able to do.
 

Thande

Donor
I'm not sure about Moore doing well in the Peninsula. He was very difficult to get along with I believe and the campaigns might not have been as successful with reaching an accord with the Spanish and Navy that Wellington was able to do.

Maybe he gets sent somewhere else - another stab at opening a Belgian or German front, perhaps?
 
Didn't Moore collaborate OK with the Spanish guerilla council leaders ? I can't even remember what they're called, let alone the detail, I've just got this nagging potential fact-ette at the back of my brain...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

67th Tigers

Banned
Didn't Moore collaborate OK with the Spanish guerilla council leaders ? I can't even remember what they're called, let alone the detail, I've just got this nagging potential fact-ette at the back of my brain...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

It's important to differentiate Guerrilla units, which were generally either regular army units or irregulars raised by the army (mostly in Navarre), with the general banditry that effected most of the country (see any of Charles Esdaile's books).
 
It's important to differentiate Guerrilla units, which were generally either regular army units or irregulars raised by the army (mostly in Navarre), with the general banditry that effected most of the country (see any of Charles Esdaile's books).

Yeah, it was the units under the regional rebel governments I think I was referring to - I was just trying to remember whether Moore had any problems getting on with their leaders, commanders etc, as what little remains of my memory seemed to say it went OK

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Remember he had limited resources in the campaign before his death. What he did with what he had proved he was a great general.

I agree - maybe top tier. The only unknown is how well he could have handled large forces - he never really got the opportunity.

There should be a Moore vs Hoche TL.
 

67th Tigers

Banned
Was he a Whig? I assume he must have been since he was so compassionate to his troops (unlike Wellington, who regarded them merely as scum).

Wellington was incredibly compassionate to his troops, obsessing over their food, hygiene, hospital arrangements etc. It's one of the things that marked him out as a Professional (unlike that gifted amateur, Napoleon, who had no time for such things, or writing clear orders)
 

MrP

Banned
Was he a Whig? I assume he must have been since he was so compassionate to his troops (unlike Wellington, who regarded them merely as scum).

Wellington was incredibly compassionate to his troops, obsessing over their food, hygiene, hospital arrangements etc. It's one of the things that marked him out as a Professional (unlike that gifted amateur, Napoleon, who had no time for such things, or writing clear orders)

I was watching a spot of Holmes the other day, and the detective remarked to Watson that the sweetest woman he had ever known had murdered several children for the insurance money, and the worst man he had ever met had given something like a quarter of a million to the poor of London.
 

MrP

Banned
Alright, i agree with the sentiment. Overall, we can never know whether or not who was compassionate enough. But it doesnt answer my question. Was he a Whig or a Tory?

Let me check A concise dictionary of military biography - from p.205, 1975: ...entered Parliament as member for the Linlithgow Boroughs in 1784. Unlike many members he took a keen interest in his parliamentary duties, generally but not invariably supporting Pitt.

Wiki says: In 1783 he returned to Britain and in 1784 he was elected to Parliament as the Member for Lanark Burghs, a seat he held until 1790.

Lanark Burghs (also known as Linlithgow Burghs) was a district of burghs constituency of the House of Commons of the Parliament of the United Kingdom (at Westminster) from 1708 to 1832, representing a seat for one Member of Parliament (MP).

There's an article on JSTOR that might be useful: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0013-8266(190407)19:75<602:TDOSJM>2.0.CO;2-9 I have no access to it, I fear, but I think 67th may.
 

MrP

Banned
Is that located anywhere on the internet? Because detailed biographical information on the great man has so far eluded me. Same with Lazare Hoche.

Sorry, edited after you asked - see above. :)

Can type up the entry, if you like. Not much in it, I fear, mainly military. I'll do a couple of paras as a sample.
 

MrP

Banned
op.cit, loc. cit. - or do I mean loc. cit, op. cit? Probably that.

Moore, Sir John (1761-1809), Lieutenant-General

It is inevitable, but unjust, that the name of Sir John Moore should be popularly associated with the dismal retreat to Corunna, the disintegration of a British army, and a lonely death and burial. The tragic ending came after a career of enormous distinction; Moore was greatly admired and respected by his contemporaries, and his finest legacy was the great contribution to final victory over Napoleon (q.v) made by the British light infantry arm which he created.

Moore was born in Glasgow on 13 November 1761, and educated locally until the age of ten. His father was the personal physician of the eighth Duke of Hamilton, whose feeble health made extensive travelling in Europe necessary. The young Moore accompanied his father and his father's patient all over the Continent for five years; he benefited greatly from the experience, becoming a most accomplished young man. At the age of fifteen, in March 1776, he entered the 51st Foot as an ensign, joining his regiment on Minorca. In January 1778 he transferred to the newly-raised 82nd Foot and served with the regimental headquarters as a junior officer throughout the War of American Independence. He saw some action, in particular a fierce combat on the Penobscot river in August 1779. As a company commander he went on half pay when the regiment was disbanded in 1783, and entered Parliament as member for the Linlithgow Boroughs in 1784. Unlike many members he took a keen interest in his parliamentary duties, generally but not invariably supporting Pitt. Between 1785 and 1787 he served with the 100th Foot; and in January 1788 he served briefly with the new 4th Battalion of the 60th (Royal American) at Chatham. Soon afterwards he moved onto his old unit, the 51st, then in Ireland. They were apparently in a poor state, but he succeeded to the lieutenant-colonelcy in November 1790 and applied himself to improving the regiment. He had achieved considerable results by the time the unit was shipped to Gibraltar, where they served in 1792-3.
 

MrP

Banned
Here, this'll be somewhat easier - for my typing hands, anyway. ;)

M1.JPG
 

MrP

Banned
Bear in mind that the source is 1975, so do check up on more recent analyses of Moore in forming a holistic view of the man. Anyway, good luck with thy TL! :)
 
Top