My ultimate alt-history idea

Hello there, long time lurker here. So, since last spring, I've been planning an alternate-history mod for a strategy game (Hearts of Iron 2, if anyone's interested). The game already has a very popular mod about Germany's victory in the Great War, but I took a step further.
My main criterias in my work are:

  • As plausible (and believable) timeline as possible
  • Several ways for the Second World War to start
I made 2 different drafts for the timeline all the way to 1936, but abandoned them because I considered some of the events all too unlikely.

I'm not done with the third version yet, but here's some of my timeline:




Undated:
USCA did not dissolve due to support from the British Empire.
Different colonization pattern in Africa. Main changes include German colonisation of Gold Coast area and Spanish colonies in Morocco.

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Pre-1900
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1797: Battle of Santa Cruz de Tenerife: Admiral Horatio Nelson is killed in this historical battle won by Spain.

1805: The Battle of Trafalgar: Without Lord Nelson's naval genius, the Royal Navy's power was compromised. The battle was won by the Franco-Spanish fleet.

1810: The Spanish troops capture Gibraltar, which defenses had been neglected for years.

1882: Norway declares itself free of the Swedish-Norwegian union. As the result, Sweden declares war on Norway.

1883: Norway and Sweden sign a peace deal: Northern Norway is transferred to Sweden.

1891: Chilean Civil War begins. Only a month after the start of the war, Argentina directly intervenes and sides with the Congressist Junta.

1892: Chilean Civil War ends. Congressist Coup is immediately followed by an Argentinian coup, leading to the unification of these two countries to the powerful bloc of Chile-Argentina.

1898: The Spanish-American War: The weak yet loyal Spanish navy defeats the American ships attempting to land in the Spanish Carribean territories. Despite multiple attempts by the United States, all amphibious landings in Cuba and Puerto Rico fail. Spain keeps its colonial possessions.

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Path to War
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1901-1908: Independence movements in India: Pakistan and India declare independence and adopt the Marxist theories; Great Britain loses the subcontinent but keeps Sri Lanka.

1913, January 13th: Japan brings an ultimatum to Russia and demands the northern half of the island of Sakhalin. Russia refuses the ultimatum, claiming that the demands are ridiculous.

1913, June 11th: Japan makes their final offer to Russia to cede the island. The offer is refused, and a country-wide mobilization starts on both sides.

1913, June 17th: In the early hours of the morning, Japanese artillery opens fire on the Russian troops near the border of Korea. Meanwhile the Japanese soldiers attack the northern half of Sakhalin.




As you can see, I still haven't written the Great War part yet, but the main points are :


  • Japan takes Sakhalin Island
  • Germany, AH (Austria-Hungary) and OE join the war on Japanese side
  • Russia captures Korea from Japan
  • Germany reaches Paris thanks to the Schlieffen plan, but are forced to retreat
  • Austria-Hungary captures a lot of Italy, but thanks to Entente counter-offensive (after Germany has been pushed back from France), Italy is reclaimed.
And the main points of the war (whichs ends in 1922) results are:


  • Japan cedes Sakhalin island
  • Korea becomes free
  • Central powers lose
  • Sudetenland is made a British satellite nation for the next 15 years
  • East Prussia is made a British satellite nation for the next 15 years
  • Austria-Hungary is split into small pieces
  • Italy receives the Balkan coastline
  • British Empire & France get a lot of African territory from OE
  • All Central Power nations pay reparations
As you might see, the main aggressor Japan gets the easiest conditions, because the other nations did the main aggressions against Russia and the Entente.

During the interbellum a lot of things happen again, mainly:


  • The political ideology of integralism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integralism) gains popularity in Brazil, Portugal and France.
  • Several wars in South America reshape the borders
  • Stock market crash of 1929 does not occur; the good times continue
  • Russia executes Lenin, whose supporters flee to other areas of the country: Russia is shattered to pieces
  • Stalin avoids capture and flees to Finland, where he gains support and becomes the leader of the Red Guard
  • British Empire loses a lot of African territory to revolting countries which it neglected during the war
  • Strong Marxist (in this timeline, Marxism overrides communism) movements in China causes the nation to split to three nations: China, Hebei and Manchuria

And of course a lot of other stuff. This leads to three major alliances in 1936, when the mod starts:


  • Integralist League (Brazil, Portugal, France: possible new members Spain)
  • 2nd Entente (British Empire, United States, all British dominions)
  • Iron Gate (Hebei, China, India: possible new members Russia)


Now, this became a huge post. I have several things I'd like you fellow AH forumites to answer.

First, what parts are the most implausible and should be changed (also give suggestions on how they could be changed)?

Second, what other interesting possibilities would there have been after such a war?

Third, I need a good name for the modification. Nothing too cheesy and something neutral enough (So forget about names "New World Order" or "British Empire falling").
 
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The TL didn't come from a video game. He made it and plans on using it for a video game mod.

From a video game or for use in a video game, there's no real difference.

The requirements for a video game mod are not the same for time line. One focuses on game play while the other focuses on plausibility.

Or, among so many other things, do you really think an alt-WW1 which features Germany allying with Japan and lasting NINE YEARS is plausible? Or India and Pakistan unilaterally declaring independence in 1908 is plausible? Or Spain's navy in 1898 preventing repeated US attempts to land on Cuba is plausible?

This is little more than Super Mario Brothers Alternate History.
 
1882: Norway declares itself free of the Swedish-Norwegian union. As the result, Sweden declares war on Norway.

1883: Norway and Sweden sign a peace deal: Northern Norway is transferred to Sweden.
That makes no sense for a start. Why would Sweden want northern Norway? Why would northern Norway want to be part of Sweden?
 
First Japan demands Sakhalin, then a little while later they attack northern Sakhalin as if they were already in control of the south.

The Treaty of Portsmouth after the Russo-Japanese war gave the southern half of the island to Japan. They tried to demand the northern half through diplomatic means, but the demands were ignored. So Japan wants the island to its own control and invades. Germany joins the war because they are hungry for colonies.

I'll look on to the parts in the TL which you guys complained about.
 

mowque

Banned
If you want Spanish Cuba and so on, better to just try and dodge the war then have Spain win it. Spain really had the deck stacked against it.
 
If you want Spanish Cuba and so on, better to just try and dodge the war then have Spain win it. Spain really had the deck stacked against it.

Thank you, this is exactly the feedback I'd like to see. Instead of people just saying "blah blah, this is completely fantasy", be constructive. If it wasn't possible for India and Pakistan to declare independence in early 1900s, when would have it been possible?
 
Tuore-A couple of things. First, this section of the thread for for alternate history AFTER 1900, but yours has numerous points before 1900. I recommend either the pre-1900 border, or the 'Alternate History books and media' which has an extensive thread on Hearts of Iron 2. Second, at this site we really push plausible alternate history, by which we mean that we want to know the reasons and background of all of the alternate events. Otherwise, it becomes a bunch of random events that don't have any connection to each other or even our history. Perhaps you could give details on why your events occurred?
 

mowque

Banned
Thank you, this is exactly the feedback I'd like to see. Instead of people just saying "blah blah, this is completely fantasy", be constructive. If it wasn't possible for India and Pakistan to declare independence in early 1900s, when would have it been possible?

I've been int he same boat.."I'd like a stable Iran..how do I get it?". My answer was read a pile of books. But this is for a video game, right? Does it have to be plausible then? I assume the main point is to make the mod fun to play. You don't even need a backstory!
 
I've been int he same boat.."I'd like a stable Iran..how do I get it?". My answer was read a pile of books. But this is for a video game, right? Does it have to be plausible then? I assume the main point is to make the mod fun to play. You don't even need a backstory!

But I'd like to make a backstory. It's a very historical strategy game, and I need the backstory to create possible starts for World War two (I've already imagined several ones: Russian civil war, Germany annexing East Prussia etc.)
 
Ok then. Then we'll have to get techinal. How does Argentina pull off an invasion of annexation of Chile? Have you ever looked at the Andes on Google Earth or something?

I have given a thought on it, and I think there are a few chances. Some might require modifying the timeline's entry a bit:

1. Argentina might have infiltrated the country with military units when the Civil War had just started. When it ends and the country's government is still unstable, they would make a militarist coup.
2. By the sea.
3. By influencing the congressist junta/placing loyal Argentinian units in assistance of the junta.
As I said, it's still in planning stage, and I'm sure that there are some problems like this. That's why I posted here, where people have already found out all kinds of alternate possibilities. Although I must admit, I could have given a bit more thought on the Chilean Civil War. Then again, it seemed just right timed and a good position for something different to happen.
 
Some great ideas

BUT if Britain NEVER has Gibraltar then the course of subsequent wars are going to be very different - ESPECIALLY the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars.

It might be best if you can find a way to get Spain to get Gibraltar BACK but that's difficult once you get beyond San Ildefonso. If Nelson is killed before Trafalgar then maybe the Franco-Spanish fleet can secure parity of the seas, and see to Spain eventually retaking Gibraltar in say 1810

Without the Napoleonic Wars of OTL Norway won't be broken off from Denmark and given to Sweden. Sweden probably remains under the Vasa and Finland may well remain with Sweden

Even if not, then Norway is far more likely to remain with Denmark

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Some great ideas

BUT if Britain NEVER has Gibraltar then the course of subsequent wars are going to be very different - ESPECIALLY the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars.

It might be best if you can find a way to get Spain to get Gibraltar BACK but that's difficult once you get beyond San Ildefonso. If Nelson is killed before Trafalgar then maybe the Franco-Spanish fleet can secure parity of the seas, and see to Spain eventually retaking Gibraltar in say 1810

Without the Napoleonic Wars of OTL Norway won't be broken off from Denmark and given to Sweden. Sweden probably remains under the Vasa and Finland may well remain with Sweden

Even if not, then Norway is far more likely to remain with Denmark

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Very interesting - I must do a bit more research on that part and make my decision on Gibraltar's fate.
Any suggestions for the name of the mod?
 
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